"It's a Jeep thing" Tolerance

[Uhdinator]

Because you can't get to a place like this in a 4 door truck, Lexus, BMW, Challenger.....etc. That's why we love our jeeps. No Its not a jeep advertisement, It's my Rubicon the first year they made them. Anything longer, or wider than a 2 door Jeep would not make it to this spot. There are no speeding tail gaters, and no texting and driving idiots.

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[Litfuse]

Because you can't get to a place like this in a 4 door truck, Lexus, BMW, Challenger.....etc. That's why we love our jeeps. No Its not a jeep advertisement, It's my Rubicon the first year they made them. Anything longer, or wider than a 2 door Jeep would not make it to this spot. There are no speeding tail gaters, and no texting and driving idiots.

That’s an awesome photo!

 

[Titan2727]

Because you can't get to a place like this in a 4 door truck, Lexus, BMW, Challenger.....etc. That's why we love our jeeps. No Its not a jeep advertisement, It's my Rubicon the first year they made them. Anything longer, or wider than a 2 door Jeep would not make it to this spot. There are no speeding tail gaters, and no texting and driving idiots.

Why wouldn't a 4 door make it?

Pfft, burning oil compared to JL multiple problems is nothing. And I'm sure Honda fixed it.
Shoot most VAGs are burning oil and it's a known quirk no one even complains anymore.
We're talking about uncontrollable behavior that's dangerous for drivers not burning oil.

Instead of consumers uniting and demanding higher quality we're divided with name calling and defensive posts.

I stopped by my Jeep dealer yesterday on the way to dinner and told my Sales Manager I'm switching to a lease. While I was there I looked at Sahara on the sales floor and wanted to see how the rear seats fold forward, just out of curiosity my wife had a question. So guess what, the salesman and I could not unlatch the rear seats to fold them. They were stuck. He tried everything, no go. He was so embarrassed and I just said I gotta go shaking my head. WTF is that , they can't even make seat release latches right? Jesus

Offensive***....posts

Just saying

 

[Uhdinator]

Because you'll get high centered in spots that a short wheelbase will not.
My 23 yeat old son says, I'll get out dad and spot you. What he really meant was dad, you're crazy!
View attachment 101670

 

[hutchman]

It appears to me the original purpose of this thread has been achieved....we now have a shit sandwich.

Time for this thread to die.

 

[jeremyjeep]

“It’s a Jeep thing” should only apply to the fact it’s gonna be louder, a little rougher, not so great gas mileage, and other inevitable consequences to the Jeep’s unique design. It does not mean you should give it pass for just poor build quality. It’s not supposed to leak, and have jacked up welds and steering.
It’s a first year model after a big redesign, so by nature the first year buyers are gonna beta test it for Jeep.

I agree with what you said 100%. Most JL owners don't mind having to take it into the service department a few more times than they had to for previous vehicles (or even 10x more), but what PISSES them off is when they have to take it to 5 different dealerships to finally get one dealership to admit that there is something wrong (like the steering problem where it has way more play than other JLs and has dangerous drifting). Then to add more insult to injury, JeepCares/Jeep Wave creates a case, then never calls back - or says "take it to another dealer". And finally, FCA says via a Star case "operates as designed" even though the service tech said "this still drives like sh_t after replacing the steering box, sorry, nothing else I can do", and the tech and/or service advisor says "yeah, I know the JL on the show room floor doesn't have the steering problem, you just got a bad one, sorry about that". Here is just one example: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...the-2018-wrangler-jl.14280/page-3#post-387753

Then, this poor guy got one with the welding problem, so bad, they gave him another JL. His replacement JL already has a bunch of issues, including the steering problems that his original JL didn't have. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-w-repair-procedure.16255/page-50#post-418383

 

[Sean K.]

Because you'll get high centered in spots that a short wheelbase will not.
View attachment 101670

No offense...but I doubt that's true. In your experience, a longer wheelbase rig would get high centered.

 

[Todkavonic]

No offense...but I doubt that's true. In your experience, a longer wheelbase rig would get high centered.

And no offense, but why does it matter? He posted a beautiful photo and did a little boasting. Unless you're planning on meeting up with him and giving it a shot, it's all hypothetical anyway now isn't it? And online, where we're all 6'4" special-ops snipers who date supermodels, let me say that I could get there in a full-length school bus. Just saying.

 

[Matthew/E36]

Stop , just stop. Now you're trolling. You will never read a story like this about brand new Honda or Honda dealership
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/v6-cylinder-misfire.17078/

This is horrible all around and the reason why American cars mostly suck

You won't if you never look...

Honda Recalls More Than a Million Cars
The company recalled the cars after multiple reports of engine fires.

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...nda-accords-recalled-after-engine-fires-spark

 

[Sean K.]

And no offense, but why does it matter? He posted a beautiful photo and did a little boasting. Unless you're planning on meeting up with him and giving it a shot, it's all hypothetical anyway now isn't it? And online, where we're all 6'4" special-ops snipers who date supermodels, let me say that I could get there in a full-length school bus. Just saying.

B/c it's factually untrue. It's not hard to look at that *basically* stock Rubi and realize that there are literally thousands of vehicles with longer wheelbases that can go the same places he did. Breakover isn't solely determined by wheelbase...and breakover doesn't mean much on a lightweight vehicle with a full belly skid. It means just as little with a heavier vehicle with more hp and a similar skid.

I'm just not one of those people who believe brand X is the only way to wheel.....YMMV



Granted, Hell's Gate isn't tough but it just goes to show that most any AWD vehicle with a good driver and no regard for damage can do a LOT of what are considered "Jeep" trails. If one starts modding said vehicle...there's really no stopping it other than one's wallet and balls.

 

[Matthew/E36]

And since this has turned into a freak out on stats- CRV is being recalled for having gas mixing in the oil and causing fires.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/10/05/2017-2018-honda-cr-v-engine-problem/

So boil it down this way- if you chase stats, you’ll never be happy. I don’t buy stats. I can’t drive stats. I research, weigh my options, buy what makes sense. I don’t think flaming forums does anything, as it doesn’t fix your root questions, nor does it solve for what you want.

Drive it, make your decision. If the internet is your parent, I feel sorry for you.

Pretty much this.

I can't argue with folks that had BMW problems...but I thought mine ran well. I also bought an M3 so I could run it for 30 minute sessions at 5,000+ RPMs 5 times a day all weekend. I'd be a little surprised if the brakes, suspension, and engine on a toyota or honda held up to that let alone keep up. Same concept with a wrangler taken offroad.

On the other hand, bought a JLUR on a splurge. It's 3-4x as much as the M3 I drove on the track and people used to comment how expensive the BMW was at the office. Anyhoo, I'm not planning to wait for 3 years so that I can brag that nothing was ever replaced on it except routine maintenance. If it's fun talking at the water cooler about how many years of vehicle ownership has resulted in zero events, then yeah, it's your money, try a camry.

 

[Matthew/E36]

Pfft, burning oil compared to JL multiple problems is nothing. And I'm sure Honda fixed it.
Shoot most VAGs are burning oil and it's a known quirk no one even complains anymore.
We're talking about uncontrollable behavior that's dangerous for drivers not burning oil.

Instead of consumers uniting and demanding higher quality we're divided with name calling and defensive posts.

I stopped by my Jeep dealer yesterday on the way to dinner and told my Sales Manager I'm switching to a lease. While I was there I looked at Sahara on the sales floor and wanted to see how the rear seats fold forward, just out of curiosity my wife had a question. So guess what, the salesman and I could not unlatch the rear seats to fold them. They were stuck. He tried everything, no go. He was so embarrassed and I just said I gotta go shaking my head. WTF is that , they can't even make seat release latches right? Jesus

Had a BMW dealer tell me the car didn't have convenience access...then when I showed him, he told me the wrong way to use it since he couldn't figure it out.

I should have steered clear of that piece of junk M3!!!

 

[Matthew/E36]

That would make sense if the problems occurred after taking the Wrangler out wheeling. The reality is that the vast majority of these problems exist when new. Quality control is the issue and not the rugged design.

I get that people love their Jeeps but I tend to agree with the OP that folks tend to give FCA a pass for some real lack of quality control. Other brands and models have issues as well but it sure seems that FCA has more than their fair share. If Jeep owners were a bit less forgiving it may push them to improve quality.

The Jeep Wrangler has no competition. This has allowed FCA to aggressively raise prices and let owners deal with the final quality control check.

I hope the upcoming Ford Bronco is a winner. Jeep could use some real competition to push them a bit.

I still don't see anyone on the boards "giving them a pass". Most loyalists would tell someone concerned with frame welds to just take a look under it before they sign, check the frame number, or whatever. If there is a problem, heck yeah talk to your dealer. Doesn't sound like a pass. No more than other makes get for recalling MILLIONS of vehicles for problems.

 

[Sean K.]

Pretty much this.

I can't argue with folks that had BMW problems...but I thought mine ran well. I also bought an M3 so I could run it for 30 minute sessions at 5,000+ RPMs 5 times a day all weekend. I'd be a little surprised if the brakes, suspension, and engine on a toyota or honda held up to that let alone keep up. Same concept with a wrangler taken offroad.

On the other hand, bought a JLUR on a splurge. It's 3-4x as much as the M3 I drove on the track and people used to comment how expensive the BMW was at the office. Anyhoo, I'm not planning to wait for 3 years so that I can brag that nothing was ever replaced on it except routine maintenance. If it's fun talking at the water cooler about how many years of vehicle ownership has resulted in zero events, then yeah, it's your money, try a camry.

And I think human beings on the average put up with a lot of crap from things we love for sentimental/non-rational reasons...or in the case of specialty vehicles....b/c of the performance advantages they have that outweigh the negatives to many of the owners.

I own a Lotus. It's a PITA to work on. So far, knock on wood, nothing has been major in spite of me pulling to 8800 rpm before shifts and generally driving it like I stole it, but I have to disassemble the entire freaking back or front half of the car to do something simple like change a bleeder o-ring on the coolant system (no joke).

I'll honestly admit that I don't really think FCA vehicles are very reliable on the whole. I own 3. Why? B/c the Ram 2500 4x4 with a diesel has a very reliable drivetrain with great components...D60 front (for my year), D80 hybrid rear, NV5600 6 spd manual, NP241HD with PTO, and a 5.9L Cummins. Hard to beat that.

I have a '98 TJ 4.0L with auto and hard top/doors. Bought it b/c the wife wanted it as a project. None of it is staying stock...not even the tub or the frame though. At that point, it's not even a Jeep anymore.

The JLUR is the same way. There's really nothing else in any class that you can buy from the manufacturer anywhere near this price point with f/r lockers, solid axles and a 4:1 tcase. If it weren't for those things in a combination....I wouldn't have bought another Jeep. I could just as easily have built something else with better reliability.

The OP makes a valid point....but I think he's missing the "why?" ......though he himself is considering purchasing/leasing a vehicle he believes to be sub par in terms of quality. From what he's said, the lease seems image driven...which is fine; but it just goes to show the reasons why people continue to buy iconic or specialty vehicles is probably as unique to each individual as the vehicles are themselves.

 

[RubenZ]

I'm starting to notice the people that seem to complain are Jeep newbies. I have a feeling they bought a jeep more for the cool factor than buying a jeep for what it can actually do. Nothing wrong with that. But these are the same people who honestly could get by with a 4x4 Ford Explorer or Subaru Forester lol.

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