How to Adjust Caster

[dayusmc]

Steer Smarts makes the larger bolts you are talking about...
I bought them, I didn't really see a difference when putting them in, but I didn't have DW. I saw a huge difference when I changed all my stock steering components to Steer Smarts Yeti ones, but my Mojave had 45k on it when I switched all those parts out, so mine were already worn...

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[AVGeek99]

Steer Smarts makes the larger bolts you are talking about...
I bought them, I didn't really see a difference when putting them in, but I didn't have DW. I saw a huge difference when I changed all my stock steering components to Steer Smarts Yeti ones, but my Mojave had 45k on it when I switched all those parts out, so mine were already worn...

Thanks for pointing me to Steer Smarts. I ordered the 9/16" bolts, should be here on Friday.

I'm kind of annoyed that the MC track bar didn't come with larger bolts. Hopefully this does the trick!

Thanks again!!

 

[dayusmc]

The funny thing is the Steer Smarts Track Bar doesn't come with them either. You have to order them separately...

 

[AVGeek99]

My shimmy and DW has been solved. The larger track bar bolts from Steer Smarts did the trick. Crazy how such a small change can have such an impact!.

My Jeep is now finally behaving like a stock vehicle on road. I'm glad I was able to resolve the issue before going to 37s and upgrading my drag link and tie rod next month.

Thank you everyone for your help and guidance.

 

[richk225]

My shimmy and DW has been solved. The larger track bar bolts from Steer Smarts did the trick. Crazy how such a small change can have such an impact!.

My Jeep is now finally behaving like a stock vehicle on road. I'm glad I was able to resolve the issue before going to 37s and upgrading my drag link and tie rod next month.

Thank you everyone for your help and guidance.

It seems like it shouldn’t make a difference at all and they should be included with the track bars instead of getting held up for a few more days of parts being shipped.
Are you going to leave the ball joints alone for now?

 

[AVGeek99]

It seems like it shouldn’t make a difference at all and they should be included with the track bars instead of getting held up for a few more days of parts being shipped.
Are you going to leave the ball joints alone for now?

Yeah, I can't believe the bolts don't automatically come with aftermarket track bars. Perhaps it's a way to get people to jump straight to the track bar mount reinforcement bracket?

Getting 37" tires next month. When they are getting installed I'll have the shop check the ball joints and will replace them if needed. I did what I could to check them and they seemed fine. There didn't seem to be any loosness. And the steering is now nice and tight after installing the track bar bolts, so I think they are fine for now.

I assume I'll need to replace them sometime in the next year.

 

[richk225]

Finally some good news!

 

[aroth85]

My shimmy and DW has been solved. The larger track bar bolts from Steer Smarts did the trick. Crazy how such a small change can have such an impact!.

My Jeep is now finally behaving like a stock vehicle on road. I'm glad I was able to resolve the issue before going to 37s and upgrading my drag link and tie rod next month.

Thank you everyone for your help and guidance.

Hey there! Hate to re-open this thread but I feel like I'm dealing with the same exact issue.

Seems to have been partially resolved with a rough country dual steering stabilizer, but still having some intermittent issues when hitting some over passes, or bumps. Were they just the 2 bolts you replaced? (Couldn't get pics to upload) And if so... did you have any play in them before you replaced them? My track bar seems VERY solid with no play.

 

[Speed331]

Hey there! Hate to re-open this thread but I feel like I'm dealing with the same exact issue.

Seems to have been partially resolved with a rough country dual steering stabilizer, but still having some intermittent issues when hitting some over passes, or bumps. Were they just the 2 bolts you replaced? (Couldn't get pics to upload) And if so... did you have any play in them before you replaced them? My track bar seems VERY solid with no play.

Check that track bar bolts are torqued correctly.
If you've had a DW experience already pull the bolts and check the bushings.

Just one occurence can permanantly damage a bushing. Even a tiny amount of ovaling can set things a flutter. At that point no amount of torque will keep it from growing gradually worse.

The bar may feel solid when checked by hand, but the amount of force put on those components when driving is a thousand times what you can apply.

 

[aroth85]

Check that track bar bolts are torqued correctly.
If you've had a DW experience already pull the bolts and check the bushings.

Just one occurence can permanantly damage a bushing. Even a tiny amount of ovaling can set things a flutter. At that point no amount of torque will keep it from growing gradually worse.

The bar may feel solid when checked by hand, but the amount of force put on those components when driving is a thousand times what you can apply.

Well, we've definitely experienced it for sure. The first set of occurrences, we had to slow to around 5 mph to get it to calm down. After the stabilizer was replaced with the newer "recalled" one, it was fine for 6-9 months I'd say with 0 occurences. It started to come back, and we replaced both tie rods, and a few different upper ball joints and added the dual stabilizer just a couple days ago. Now, the occurrence is still there around 65-75mph but it's very minimal shimmy/shake DW feel. But it isn't 100% gone. That I'm sure of.

From what I found online, the torque is supposed to be right around 110. That's where I was. Now, I must add.. I'm no expert in knowing if there is any sort of oval-ing going on. And I'm not not totally against just getting a new track bar/bolts Just to be sure. And if I'm doing that, should I just throw the steering box support bracket on it as well? Hate to just throw parts at it, but at some point, I feel that's all there is left to do

 

[Speed331]

Well, we've definitely experienced it for sure. The first set of occurrences, we had to slow to around 5 mph to get it to calm down. After the stabilizer was replaced with the newer "recalled" one, it was fine for 6-9 months I'd say with 0 occurences. It started to come back, and we replaced both tie rods, and a few different upper ball joints and added the dual stabilizer just a couple days ago. Now, the occurrence is still there around 65-75mph but it's very minimal shimmy/shake DW feel. But it isn't 100% gone. That I'm sure of.

From what I found online, the torque is supposed to be right around 110. That's where I was. Now, I must add.. I'm no expert in knowing if there is any sort of oval-ing going on. And I'm not not totally against just getting a new track bar/bolts Just to be sure. And if I'm doing that, should I just throw the steering box support bracket on it as well? Hate to just throw parts at it, but at some point, I feel that's all there is left to do

I had the same issue. I replaced the stock track bar with a solid steel adjustable one. It solved my issue straight away.
Part of the problem as well, is the stock componants are light weight hollow tubing. This allows for a very wide range of resonance within the system, making it 'easier' for DW to occur when something is even slightly out of spec.
The solid steel bar has a damping effect that reduces that range dramatically - kind of like putting your finger against a ringing chime.

I got all this from an engineer who took a really deep dive into the system. It's great when everything is perfect, but stock, it is very unforgiving of the slightest miss-adjustment.

 

[aroth85]

I had the same issue. I replaced the stock track bar with a solid steel adjustable one. It solved my issue straight away.
Part of the problem as well, is the stock componants are light weight hollow tubing. This allows for a very wide range of resonance within the system, making it 'easier' for DW to occur when something is even slightly out of spec.
The solid steel bar has a damping effect that reduces that range dramatically - kind of like putting your finger against a ringing chime.

I got all this from an engineer who took a really deep dive into the system. It's great when everything is perfect, but stock, it is very unforgiving of the slightest miss-adjustment.

I appreciate the sharing of that info! It sounds as if, you're recommendation is to go ahead and put a new solid bar on it with the upgraded 9/16 bolts and re-evaluate from there?

 

[Speed331]

I appreciate the sharing of that info! It sounds as if, you're recommendation is to go ahead and put a new solid bar on it with the upgraded 9/16 bolts and re-evaluate from there?

Yep. Your current situation is only going to slowly degrade if the bushings are damaged. The new SS will compensate for a while, but fixing the root cause will give you much more piece of mind.

 

[sbrimer]

Hey there! Hate to re-open this thread but I feel like I'm dealing with the same exact issue.

Seems to have been partially resolved with a rough country dual steering stabilizer, but still having some intermittent issues when hitting some over passes, or bumps. Were they just the 2 bolts you replaced? (Couldn't get pics to upload) And if so... did you have any play in them before you replaced them? My track bar seems VERY solid with no play.

I will say this, I tightened and torqued every bolt and nut possible under the front AND rear of my Jeep and I had the exact same feeling. I have had many wranglers in the past and 3 different JL's other than this 392.

That being said, every single vehicle is different once things start getting altered from OEM.....and that is where I lost sight. I knew it, but it got lost in my mind following what the general thought process was and what people said and what I knew I had tried, wasn't solving my problem...but it SHOULD have. That is where the problem was. "It SHOULD have."

My caster was adjusted to what "SHOULD" be correct, with 4 and 1/2 inches of lift, 37's, aftermarket drive shaft, Teraflex tie rod, drag link and track bar, steer smarts sector shaft brace and finally Falcon 2.2 steering stabilizer.

One thing I also do that makes things much better is, I have a Tazer and I turn the Electronic Power Steering (EPS) to No, which turns it off. Makes a huge difference and the only time I notice it, even on 37's, is moving very slowly in a parking lot when the steering stabilizer is on FIRM. On the other settings, I never notice.

Anyway, the issue that I am referring to, is what I "should" have paid more attention to for my specific Jeep and not what "SHOULD" work, is the caster angle.

Even the smallest number of degrees make a HUGE difference.

Mine Jeep for example, with all of the changes above was adjusted to a degree that "SHOULD"be correct, and although I could drive it easily and well at 100 mph, the bridge crossings or the sudden bumps, just seemed...a little....weird...shaky..unstable like.

The general OEM rule of caster is 6 degrees. Generally speaking, axle measured at 90 degrees = caster at 6 degrees.

My caster was set the way it "SHOULD" be or it was measured incorrectly from the wrong place on the axle, at 87.2 degrees which worked out to about 3.2 degrees. Here lies my problem. I have been chasing the wrong tail.

Make adjustments to caster and move the front axle no more than 1.5 to 2 degrees at a time. It will take time, because you have to complete the entire task after every adjustment and tighten all the bolts back to torque specs to see if it worked. Pain in the ass, yes....but if you want if right, and everything isn't working, this is the way. Write down the measurements and degrees when you start.

For my set up above, and each vehicle is different, my axle is now set at 89.4 degrees which is 5.4 degrees of castor. No vibration in driveshaft, no noise, no binding, nothing.

My Jeep now rides and steers perfect.

One final thing I can say...............................



Death wobble makes you appreciate sunrises a little more.

 

[Jtphoto]

All of my Jeeps, including JKs, have been dialed in at 4.9-5.1 degrees caster with lifts from 2.5” to 4.5” and it’s never been a problem. They are also daily drivers with lots of miles.
One key note is the factory front track bar is too soft and flexes too much once you run bigger heavier tires. At first sign of bump induce wobble change the trackbar to something more solid.

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