GMRS Radios?

[SoK66]

Our club has switched over to GMRS. I picked up a Midland MXT275 unit that's a nice, complete package that includes power unit, hand held controller/mic and magnetic base antenna. It's probably more than I need. I already had a set of Uniden FRS hand helds that in my ignorance I wasn't aware would likely do the job on club runs.

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[jellis4148]

I have this handheld with a mount in the Jeep for it. I've used it numerous times, and with Jeep Jamboree. It's never let me down, and I can talk/hear with 0 issues. Battery lasts a long time. https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wou...eXVSRqNym4-939M1DSqMGaIcGL7SnoePTWx9yhr9_Ss4w

 

[tjrider99]

I have this handheld with a mount in the Jeep for it. I've used it numerous times, and with Jeep Jamboree. It's never let me down, and I can talk/hear with 0 issues. Battery lasts a long time. https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wou...eXVSRqNym4-939M1DSqMGaIcGL7SnoePTWx9yhr9_Ss4w

I have this same handheld and also have had great luck using it. https://www.buytwowayradios.com/
sells multiple brands and are great to deal with. The Wouxun is a very nice handheld!

 

[apensity]

We've had our Jeep for a few months now and have been off-roading twice. Both times I had to borrow radios. Now let me get started by saying I DONT KNOW ANYTHING about these radios. I did a quick Amazon search and was ready to buy $20-40 GMRS radios but one of the trail guides recommended a Rugged Radio R1. Without more research I just bought thinking he knows what he's talking about. Well, the radio came in today and I was googling and apparently a lot of people don't like this brand. Saying it's just an expensive version of the cheaper stuff that work the same. So now I'm thinking about returning them, but I still need one. But since I don't know anything about this, I'm hoping to get some guidance but also get schooled on this.

Can you guys please explain it like I'm 5 when it comes to: which one do I need for simple off-roading to communicate? Eventually I would like to head out west to do wheeling there so would like it to be compatible. Do I really need a license and why? Can just a handheld work or do I really need to install a whole CB type unit I've seen some guys do? Should I just keep the R1, I think I read its not GMRS. What even IS GMRS? Ok, sorry for all the noob questions but if I can get a $30 amazon radio that does the same stuff as the R1 I'll do that. Thanks!

Get a Baofeng UV-5R and call it good. It's cheap and works great for trail comms. I have 4 of them and they all work great. However, I have a new 50w in-car GMRS that I am installing tomorrow, so we'll see how good it is in a couple of weeks.

 

[Nokones]

Respectively, I am not trying to piss on somebody's morning Cheerios, but most Baofeng radios are not GMRS certified for Part 95 use, and there are real reasons why they do not meet the FCC Part 95 specifications.

Also, the reception, from the non-GMRS certified Baofeng radios, is not that great and, in most cases, they will come across fuzzy, garbled and choppy, or at low volume, when other radios are not coming in at low volume, even when only a few feet away from other radios.

The issue is not the output power level and I have checked the RF output power of a couple of those problem radios.

For only 20 or so dollars for a radio, how can any manufacturer build a radio that would work half-way decently. Most Baofeng users wouldn't know that they are poorly received on the other end because they don't hear themselves communicating. Also, most people that are not radio geeks wouldn't know the difference between a poor/weak signal level or a radio that produces poor off-frequency emissions.

I belong to three different Jeep Clubs and most of the Baofeng radio owners end up throwing away their Baofengs after a while for various reasons and acquire better-quality radio for their trail comms.

The FRS radios are another problem on the trail, but they kinda work, but only very close by to other radios. With these radios, the maximum distance is no more than a half-mile when using them inside of a vehicle and if you're using any of the channels from 8 to 14, it gets worse, even if you have a visual line-of-sight between the two radios, providing there are no giggly weeds or pucker bushes in between the two radio users. When you get around a bend of a mole hill you're done if you are using FRS radios, especially on channels 8 through 14.

The output power of the FRS Channels 8-14 is only a half watt being transmitted into a poorly designed antenna and that will cut down on the distance quite a lot and try to use them inside of a Jeep or other vehicle that also becomes a problem for distance. The output power for channels 1-7 and 15-22 is only two-watts and that power is also trying to get through the same poorly designed antenna. That poorly designed antenna is by design not that fact that it is cheaply made. The FRS radios will get you by, but not very far.

Most of the people that get tired of the cheap Chinese or the little itty-bitty FRS radios, will usually buy a mobile radio for better Trail Comms like the Midland MXT mobiles. I see more people switching to the MXT275, MXT575, or the under-the-dash Midland MXT500, mobile radios and they have been very happy with them for Trail Comms. They may not have a lot of features, but they are simple and of a good quality.

The MXT275 and 575 radios have the handheld controls in the microphone and that makes it convenient for most users. The MXT275 is a 15-watt radio and the MXT575 is a 50-watt radio. The MXT500 is also a 50-watt radio.

For trail comms, the MXT275 has been the most popular bought used radios for Jeepers, mostly for the cost of the MXT275, but this radio does work very well on the trail, and I have never heard a compliant from anyone nor have I experienced a reception problem from those radios.

Some have tried other Cheap Chinese Mobile radios, and I have heard mixed reviews from the users, and in some cases those radios will cause the same reception problems for other people as the handheld Baofeng radios do.

In my testing of different radios on different bands and antennae, I have found that the CB Radio would get you further distances than a FRS radio. Some of that does have to do with a CB Radio using an outside mounted antenna but the power of a CB Radio and the propagation of a CB Radio frequency signal is better than the FRS Radio in some cases.

My test results revealed that the FRS maximum radio distance was a half-mile on flat desert terrain and mostly a visual line-of-sight between the two radio units. The CB Radio in the AM mode was about 2 1/4 mile with above average RF noise floor, and 3 1/2 miles in the FM mode with the same noise floor.

By far, the MXT275 radio has been the most popular Trail Comm radio. No, I don't have a Midland MXT275 radio. However, I do own a Midland MXT500 radio, but I don't use the radio. It is one of my loaner radios I bring with me for anyone that doesn't have a radio for Trail Comm.

 

[Gangplank]

if I wanted a handheld to start out would I be ok with the T290VP4?

Midland T290VP4
https://www.buytwowayradios.com/midland-t290vp4.html

Or step up to the
Midland GXT3000
https://www.buytwowayradios.com/midland-gxt-3000-vp4.html

 

[Poseidon20]

Get a Baofeng UV-5R and call it good. It's cheap and works great for trail comms. I have 4 of them and they all work great. However, I have a new 50w in-car GMRS that I am installing tomorrow, so we'll see how good it is in a couple of weeks.

This is exactly what I ended up doing. Got a lot of great feedback here and for my uses this cheap thing is fine. I don’t ever plan to lead groups or anything like that. I used it this weekend and it worked great.

If it ends up really sucking because it’s cheap and Chinese I’ll get something better after I learn more through experience.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Respectively, I am not trying to piss on somebody's morning Cheerios, but most Baofeng radios are not GMRS certified for Part 95 use, and there are real reasons why they do not meet the FCC Part 95 specifications.

Also, the reception, from the non-GMRS certified Baofeng radios, is not that great and, in most cases, they will come across fuzzy, garbled and choppy, or at low volume, when other radios are not coming in at low volume, even when only a few feet away from other radios.

The issue is not the output power level and I have checked the RF output power of a couple of those problem radios.

For only 20 or so dollars for a radio, how can any manufacturer build a radio that would work half-way decently. Most Baofeng users wouldn't know that they are poorly received on the other end because they don't hear themselves communicating. Also, most people that are not radio geeks wouldn't know the difference between a poor/weak signal level or a radio that produces poor off-frequency emissions.

I belong to three different Jeep Clubs and most of the Baofeng radio owners end up throwing away their Baofengs after a while for various reasons and acquire better-quality radio for their trail comms.

The FRS radios are another problem on the trail, but they kinda work, but only very close by to other radios. With these radios, the maximum distance is no more than a half-mile when using them inside of a vehicle and if you're using any of the channels from 8 to 14, it gets worse, even if you have a visual line-of-sight between the two radios, providing there are no giggly weeds or pucker bushes in between the two radio users. When you get around a bend of a mole hill you're done if you are using FRS radios, especially on channels 8 through 14.

The output power of the FRS Channels 8-14 is only a half watt being transmitted into a poorly designed antenna and that will cut down on the distance quite a lot and try to use them inside of a Jeep or other vehicle that also becomes a problem for distance. The output power for channels 1-7 and 15-22 is only two-watts and that power is also trying to get through the same poorly designed antenna. That poorly designed antenna is by design not that fact that it is cheaply made. The FRS radios will get you by, but not very far.

Most of the people that get tired of the cheap Chinese or the little itty-bitty FRS radios, will usually buy a mobile radio for better Trail Comms like the Midland MXT mobiles. I see more people switching to the MXT275, MXT575, or the under-the-dash Midland MXT500, mobile radios and they have been very happy with them for Trail Comms. They may not have a lot of features, but they are simple and of a good quality.

The MXT275 and 575 radios have the handheld controls in the microphone and that makes it convenient for most users. The MXT275 is a 15-watt radio and the MXT575 is a 50-watt radio. The MXT500 is also a 50-watt radio.

For trail comms, the MXT275 has been the most popular bought used radios for Jeepers, mostly for the cost of the MXT275, but this radio does work very well on the trail, and I have never heard a compliant from anyone nor have I experienced a reception problem from those radios.

Some have tried other Cheap Chinese Mobile radios, and I have heard mixed reviews from the users, and in some cases those radios will cause the same reception problems for other people as the handheld Baofeng radios do.

In my testing of different radios on different bands and antennae, I have found that the CB Radio would get you further distances than a FRS radio. Some of that does have to do with a CB Radio using an outside mounted antenna but the power of a CB Radio and the propagation of a CB Radio frequency signal is better than the FRS Radio in some cases.

My test results revealed that the FRS maximum radio distance was a half-mile on flat desert terrain and mostly a visual line-of-sight between the two radio units. The CB Radio in the AM mode was about 2 1/4 mile with above average RF noise floor, and 3 1/2 miles in the FM mode with the same noise floor.

By far, the MXT275 radio has been the most popular Trail Comm radio. No, I don't have a Midland MXT275 radio. However, I do own a Midland MXT500 radio, but I don't use the radio. It is one of my loaner radios I bring with me for anyone that doesn't have a radio for Trail Comm.

Well, since I didn't fix my cherrios yet, I decided to see if my cheap chinese radios were type approved. So, I read as much of Title 47 Part 95 as I could on an empty stomach. In my career, I spent a lot of my time researching the Code of Federal Regulations for airplane certification and operation. So, I'm very familiar with the CFR architecture, but it's still a pain to navigate.

Apparently, the proprietor of BTech is an importer based in South Dakota and submitted these Bao Feng sourced radios for certification.

I had found the grant certificate for my radios and was going to post it with a screen grab, when the power around here went down. So, I'm on a mobil device for now. But I just wanted to post that my BTECH (a.k.a. Bao Feng) GMRS-PRO cheap chinese radio (not all that cheap @ $150 ea today) is indeed FCC certified. So, not all Bao Feng radios are junk. In fact, my GMRS-PRO radios have very clear reception and transmission. I've used them for trips lasting a few days, leaving them on the entire time on a single charge. So, they have a battery saving mode when there's no transmission/reception activity. I'm pleased with them and would recommend them after having them for a couple years now.

 

[zouch]

GMRS is different from CB and ham. The specified use is to talk with people you have prearranged to talk with. Like Queen Randy says, if talking with random men is your goal, Grinder is much better.

i'll not ask for your experience backing this theory up.

The certification relates to use, not just sales. The sales and import restrictions are to limit improper USE.

odd, isn't it? considering that our Amateur licenses allow us to Design, Build, Maintain and Operate our own Transceivers, that we aren't supposed to modify a Commercially produced unit?
even odder when we consider that many of us have legally produced Xcvrs that are capable of operating outside of current Band Limits due to changes in the Band Plans...

 

[zouch]

were getting into the weeds here, but i think you're confusing Gain with Radiation Pattern here.

for example, a 5/8 Wave Ant with a decent Ground Plane will radiate best out toward the horizon, where a 1/2W Ant will radiate equally poorly in all directions in a more Spherical pattern.
this makes a 5/8 Wave better for areas where the intended Receiver is out on a level horizon, but a 1/2 Wave better if we're dealing with vehicles that are being tipped at angles and/or trying to be heard by a Receiver/Repeater that is at a significantly different elevation.

the differences are fairly subtle for most uses, and insignificant at the distances people are typically using for Spotting, etc., but significant enough in some situations.
example; in San Francisco, the guys in the city Radio Shop found that they needed to use 1/2W Ants on the vehicles to work their Repeaters that were on the hills that were above them around town.
in Central states out in Flatistan, a 5/8W Ant that radiates all its power out to the horizon would be just the ticket.

as for gain; less is better if you want to hear/be heard less.

Also of note is the common misconception about gain in antennas (i e. more gain=more betterer).

Gain functions like beam width in a flashlight. Take 2 flashlights with the same emitter, but one has a wide beam (lower gain) and the other has a narrow beam (higher gain). The one with the narrow beam will be brighter in the areas it lights up and can light up things that are farther away, but the wider beam lights up more things.

A high-gain antenna is better for open areas where you need to reach out a long way to communicate, but lower gain is better in areas with topography and trees because it's more likely to send at least part of the signal around or over instructions. Note that there are a lot of other factors in play and this is a fairly oversimplified summary.

 

[zouch]

agreed on the AM vs FM results; those are atypical based on most experience in that band. (personally, i don't know why more people aren't using Single Sideband on CB; it's more power, has better range, and multiple speakers can be heard at the same time as the strongest signal doesn't cancel out all others.)

as for APRS, it most certainly will work without Digipeaters, and works fine from "unit to unit".
but it is true that it is not a "location system"; it is merely a reporting system, and can be used to report anything (including location).

Not to argue, and respect is due to someone who did an actual field test, but the CB AM vs CB FM results are atypical of the 2 modes. It would be interesting to test some other models and brands and see if the results hold true across many different CB manufacturers and models beyond the pair that was tested.

It may be pure luck, but my CCR's I bought 8 years ago work the same now as they did when new. I've also had remarkable luck with "professional" antennae being tuned dead on for GMRS. There are a lot of junk and counterfeit antennae out there. I have had good luck including the mag mounts I have used over the years.

APRS works where there are APRS digipeaters, it is not unit to unit or ground to satellite location system. It is not going to work in remote areas without digipeaters like high in the mountains or far out in the desert. Buringa lived just a few miles from me.

 

[jellis4148]

I've had the Wouxun for 4 years. Never had a problem communicating long distance or hearing. The farthest I've ever talked with someone was about 2 miles away, and they were clear as standing next to me. Holds a charge very well. I have a mount in the Jeep for it, so I don't even have to grab it. I just push the talk and go. I don't have to permanently mount it, and it's nice to be able to get out of the Jeep and still hear what's going on. https://www.buytwowayradios.com/wou...eXVSRqNym4-939M1DSqMGaIcGL7SnoePTWx9yhr9_Ss4w

 

[cosmokenney]

Respectively, I am not trying to piss on somebody's morning Cheerios, but most Baofeng radios are not GMRS certified for Part 95 use, and there are real reasons why they do not meet the FCC Part 95 specifications.

Also, the reception, from the non-GMRS certified Baofeng radios, is not that great and, in most cases, they will come across fuzzy, garbled and choppy, or at low volume, when other radios are not coming in at low volume, even when only a few feet away from other radios.

I've used both my UV-5R handhelds and my hard mounted QYT KT8900 with my friends and they work fine. I did have a small problem where the passive lock system (assumed) in the jeep would interfere on certain frequencies. But changing to a different freq solved that problem for us.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Just to level set on BTech (Bao Feng) radios and FCC approval. Here's the list of approved radios from BTech. I have no idea if this is all of the radios they sell or most or a small part. But, this is the list of their radios meeting FCC requirements from the FCC website.
BTECH (BaoFeng Tech) FCC Filings

 

[roaniecowpony]

This is exactly what I ended up doing. Got a lot of great feedback here and for my uses this cheap thing is fine. I don’t ever plan to lead groups or anything like that. I used it this weekend and it worked great.

If it ends up really sucking because it’s cheap and Chinese I’ll get something better after I learn more through experience.

If you are curious if your radio is FCC approved, remove the battery and look for a sticker with an FCC ID. That number is evidence of approval and can be verified on the FCC ID lookup site. From the chatter on the web, the BaoFeng UV5R might not be.

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