FRAM Ultra @20K Miles

[DanW]

All my oil changes with the exception of motor flushes come out translucent brown or honey colored. This is the first time in over 20 years and numerous oil changes that it drained pitch black on both vehicles. This leads me to believe that the Wix XP's were defective. I purchased them from the same vender on Amazon so there is a possibility they were counterfeit. Still, I'm not going to chance it.



Gosh that was over 25 years ago. I have no clue "which model" except we were happy the low oil pressure shutdown saved the motor. This is the first time since then I have used a Fram oil filter. I'm a bit nervous but I'm going to be checking my oil pressure gages more frequently to insure the filters are at least holding up to the pressure.

Yeah, the company changed dramatically from those days. They went from the bottom of the barrel to the froth at the top.

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[roaniecowpony]

All my oil changes with the exception of motor flushes come out translucent brown or honey colored. This is the first time in over 20 years and numerous oil changes that it drained pitch black on both vehicles. This leads me to believe that the Wix XP's were defective. I purchased them from the same vender on Amazon so there is a possibility they were counterfeit. Still, I'm not going to chance it.

I'd like to hear a follow up on this when you go to a Fram Ultra. That might make me switch to a Ultra now instead of using my current stock.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I’m not weighing in on the likelihood of the filter rupturing, but if it did so, and the engine lost all its oil and seized, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act wouldn’t be relevant.

That Act protects the consumer when warranty coverage for a repair is being denied based on the fact that the vehicle has been modified, but the modification is completely unrelated to the repair that needs to be done. In a scenario like the one suggested here, where the aftermarket part fails in a way which causes the damage/failure, the Act is not in play, and the manufacturer is off the hook. You’d be left looking to Fram and whoever did the oil change (if it was somebody else) to help pay for that new motor.

Well...from an engineering standpoint even if there were no filter in the housing, the engine could not lose all of its oil so that is not even a consideration, but I get your point. I am just not a handwringer and this filter can go its full advertised miles. I have done it many times with various vehicles, but that risk tolerance is not in the wheelhouse of everyone, I get it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Gosh that was over 25 years ago. I have no clue "which model" except we were happy the low oil pressure shutdown saved the motor. This is the first time since then I have used a Fram oil filter. I'm a bit nervous but I'm going to be checking my oil pressure gages more frequently to insure the filters are at least holding up to the pressure.

25 years ago would have been circa 1997 so I will surmise it was an Extra Guard (orange can) versus a Tough Guard (silver can) and the Ultra was not on the market yet.

Certainly, the Extra Guard filters are the cheapest in the line and back in those days, there is no telling what media was in the can. These days, even the Extra Guard has improved and the darlings like Purolator and Motorcraft (particularly the FL-820s) are known to tear with predictable frequency.

I think you'll find the Ultra is in a class all to itself.

 

[Whaler27]

Well...from an engineering standpoint even if there were no filter in the housing, the engine could not lose all of its oil so that is not even a consideration, but I get your point. I am just not a handwringer and this filter can go its full advertised miles. I have done it many times with various vehicles, but that risk tolerance is not in the wheelhouse of everyone, I get it.

I'm not disagreeing with your primary thesis at all -- just speaking to MM Act reference under the unlikely "rupture" scenario. I'm assuming such a rupture would cause a loss in oil pressure/volume, and that would be the end of the engine and the discussion of responsibility.

I would expect filter effectiveness to improve over time (up to a point when the filter lets nothing through), because the collected particulates become part of the filtering substrate. I would also expect the filtering resistance to increase with the collection of particulates, though I have no evidence that's true.

I remember a similar discussion that arose on a diesel forum I used to camp on. In that case an engineer on the forum was responding to the proliferation of "cold air kits". He decided to test a bunch of the low-restriction, cold-air-kit air filters to see how they compared in terms of particulate pass-through and actual horsepower gains. It was an extremely extensive series of tests using systems that measured vacuum/resistance/particulate pass-through and comparing before and after power on the dyno. The results were compelling. On balance, the expensive aftermarket air filters were 99%. Most did nothing for power, but they DID make the engine noise more noticeable (so guys imagined/perceived more power), and they did allow lots of crap into the engine.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I'm not disagreeing with your primary thesis at all -- just speaking to MM Act reference under the unlikely "rupture" scenario. I'm assuming such a rupture would cause a loss in oil pressure/volume, and that would be the end of the engine and the discussion of responsibility.

Ummm....no, it can't. You must be describing another engine, certainly not a 3.6L which uses a cartridge filter. The filter and the filter housing are 100% filled with oil and any rupture no matter how large or small would not impact the oil pressure in the slightest. All modern engines use positive displacement pumps and bypass and scenarios like that do not impact the pressure.

Now on an engine that has a spin on filter, then yes, a filter rupture, e.g. the external can breaking or splitting could lead to a sudden and rapid loss of pressure. With that said, most, if not all, spin on filters are designed and tested at pressures far above the engine oil pressure. The bursting pressure for a typical spin on is in excess of 300PSI with many much higher than that. Short of physical damage to the can, there is little chance of that happening. What typically happens at those pressures is the gasket blows out or starts to leak.

 

[Strommen95]

Why is wanting the latest and greatest a negative? ...and why is it "too many"? I think it's "the American way". That is: I think it's capitalism working its majic. People wanted clean water and steady sources of food, so the made reservoirs, piping systems, gardens, chicken coops and ranches. People want reliable, comfortable transportation, and some want recreational capabilities in their vehicles too. Need is the mother of invention and want is the mother of capitolism. You have to admit, "want" is a lot more fun than "need".

Nothing wrong with wanting something new. I agree it's strange on this forum though given there's essentially no difference between a 2018 and a 2022 besides different engines + a lot more money. A lot of people don't even seem to change engines.

Really though, I think most people in America buy new cars because they don't take care of their old ones. Which is a lot different than just upgrading. For me personally, my outlook on keeping vehicles changed completely once I started wiping down + vacuuming my interior regularly. Made me realize there's nothing special about a "new" car, it's just clean and fresh.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Nothing wrong with wanting something new. I agree it's strange on this forum though given there's essentially no difference between a 2018 and a 2022 besides different engines + a lot more money. A lot of people don't even seem to change engines.

Really though, I think most people in America buy new cars because they don't take care of their old ones. Which is a lot different than just upgrading. For me personally, my outlook on keeping vehicles changed completely once I started wiping down + vacuuming my interior regularly. Made me realize there's nothing special about a "new" car, it's just clean and fresh.

Everyone has their reasons for moving onto another vehicle. They may not be what I'd do, but everyone has to paddle their own canoe. Most people keep vehicles longer or shorter out of a financial consideration in one form or another. I'm no different, or I'd be buying a new vehicle all the time.

For me, it's sometimes a bit of wanting something different to drive. Like when I sold my 2014 SS Camaro with 50k on the odometer and bought the JLUR. My life as a working, commuting, person was about to change to a retiree with a passion for hunting upland birds in the west. While the SS was fun for a commuter, it had completed its utility and enjoyment for me.

With my trucks, I take a more pragmatic approach. I get a new truck when the maintenance curve seems to be turning up sharply. That seems to be in the 125k mile/6-8 year range, or has been with a couple of them. I do all of my own maintenance. I may keep the 2014 GMC I have longer, since I'm retired and my income stream is reduced. But maybe not. If it remains relatively reliable, I'll probably keep it longer.

 

[gsbrockman]

I get a new truck when the maintenance curve seems to be turning up sharply.

You say “maintenance” but did you really imply repairs?

 

[roaniecowpony]

You say “maintenance” but did you really imply repairs?

Ok, Some repairs some maintenance. When you replace the belts and hoses, coolant, plugs, etc, that is maintenance if they're still working. When a waterpump starts leaking a lot of people might call that maintenance as well. But I suppose it's a repair. To me, replacing worn parts like steering components and balljoints, is maintenance.

 

[mwilk012]

It is always more expensive to buy a new vehicle than to maintain the one you've got.

 

[DanW]

It is always more expensive to buy a new vehicle than to maintain the one you've got.

Or worse....Buy a new one AND maintain it! Lol! Then there's a Jeep. Buy it ($$$), maintain it ($) and mod it ($$)!

 

[mwilk012]

Or worse....Buy a new one AND maintain it! Lol! Then there's a Jeep. Buy it ($$$), maintain it ($) and mod it ($$)!

I hear people always say they love their cars, they’ll “drive them until the wheels fall off”, but it turns out, you can always put the wheels back on.

except for you guys up in the great salty north. The rust, oh god.

 

[roaniecowpony]

It is always more expensive to buy a new vehicle than to maintain the one you've got.

I suppose that depends on what you have, how much you're paying for maintenance and repairs, and what new vehicle we are talking about.

 

[gsbrockman]

I suppose that depends on what you have, how much you're paying for maintenance and repairs, and what new vehicle we are talking about.

Exactly......
For example......I think this car line would get expensive fasssssssttttttt to maintain.

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