ESS start/stop not working properly!!!!!!!!!!!!

ToPar9

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I don't know. Pulling the fender is easy though. Pulled both when I upgraded the headlights. Takes 5 minutes.
Interesting ... I replaced both headlights and didn't pull the fenders.
I pulled the fenders to install the Oracle SideTrack lights. If they pull the fender off, they will rip the wire out without understanding it's there.
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ToPar9

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They will fix under warranty. I just had my starter battery replaced and since it was under warranty there was no charge.
Is the small amp a stereo thing? I have aftermarket headlights (DRL plugged into Aux 3) and a few other things and they didn't say anything.
I've replaced all lights with LEDs. Head, tail, turn signals, replaced the side markers with smoked lenses. I also ran my upgraded headlights DRL to fuse 57.
I've added a small amp under my passenger seat with an 8 gauge power wire. I upgraded the front speakers (3-way Morel's, soundbar Kickers). I also threw in a self-powered 10" in the back.
With all that said, I am worried about the "add-on's" causing the dealership to question my rig.

So many issues, I also looked at my work order from when I had my oil changed ... fricken 6 quarts.
I am building quite the list of items to look at when I drop it off at the dealership.

1. ESS failure
2. Check Engine Light
3. Remove half to a full quart of oil
4. The recent steering wheel recall

Part two to the ESS issue, someone mentioned high temps, AC on full blast causing the ESS to fault. Last night, I drove to the airport to pick someone up. Rain, low 70s, AC on low (1), received the "Start/Stop Unavailable, Service Soon"

My main battery reads 13.8 to 14.1. I wish they had an AUX battery display. It would be nice to know if that's running low.

Gotta love <10k miles and all of the issues associated.
I tried to trade it in for a Lexus over the weekend, but the dealership didn't want to play.
If I can't play, I might as well drive in style.
Lowball trade-in amount, and wouldn't come down off of MSRP. They gave me a horse **** amount when I asked for the dealer invoice. I didn't see the invoice itself.
Guess I wait until the 21's are released and try to pick-up a 20.
I thought about listing it locally, but I don't want to be directly responsible for someone taking my headache. I won't feel so bad giving it to a dealer and letting them deal with the BS.
 

ToPar9

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There's a recently posted video on YT that shows exactly how to get at the aux battery.
You can probably search & find it easy enough.
I was just curious, I did find the video on YT. I don't plan to replace it, I will let the dealership handle it. I want to start the clock, visits, etc should this continue to be an ongoing problem. FCA can have it back at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I drive all over for work. I need a dependable vehicle without worrying about check engine lights, batteries, ESS, and an overflow of oil.
 

ToPar9

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O2 sensor in braking system.
I will act like I didn't see this.
Nah, just kidding .. I will keep this in mind when talking with the dealership.
 

KenPewPew

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Disclaimer: I mucho hate ESS. Its the bane of my existence and cause much frustration that leads to much constipation in my life cause of ESS stress (nevermind...) I wish that I can turn it off and it stays off.

2.5 hours later, he changed his mind.
I would change the service center if I were you! Those are some basic stuff about batteries and ESS functionality (some people hacked the ESS from working by removing some cables to the battery although the warning light will be on all the time). But not to know simple thing like that - I think he has been playing a little bit too much with his Tinkertoys® and did not graduate from it.

I think new vehicles are overly complicated. Too many things to go wrong, and in the process ruin the ownership experience. "KISS", Keep It Simple Stupid.
I would be much happier with a more Raw off-road Jeep,
Dude bro!!! Surely you don't mean that!!! While I understand that technically yes it can be a bit of a hassle but I am soooooo happy with my JL because of the upgrades!!! I want to ride this toy of mine everywhere - I love it that I can back up while looking at my camera (now if they come up with aerial 360 parking like Nissan and other brands have my life would be complete!)

I think that the Jeep people still "KISS" (keep it simple stupid) as with the JL we can integrate our lives with the vehicle - such as listening to music via Bluetooth (yes yes I know it does not work all the time - ie with Android Auto) - or talking over the phone handsfree and many other things that are awesome because of upgrades and technologies that make a Jeep a joy to use.

Now my dear friend - surely you don't think that Ford Model T a good vehicle cause what you considered as old skool could be construed as technologically advance compared to the first mass produced Model T.

BUT I hear you bro - I do wish for days when things are so much simpler and less complicated.

Also - does ANYONE remember the miracle of this gadget?? I do - but I am soooooo glad that I don't have to use it anymore....

1597712937537.png


By the way those Oculus LED lights from Oracle that has been discussed in other thread (someone mentioned it) reminds me of....

1597713102393.png


or

1597713378593.png


Also ToPar - have you tried the Konami code on your car?? It usually fixes everything - in my desperation I always regress to try to up up down down left right left right B A - Start. Give it a shot. :giggle:
 

ToPar9

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Also ToPar - have you tried the Konami code on your car?? It usually fixes everything - in my desperation I always regress to try to up up down down left right left right B A - Start. Give it a shot. :giggle:
Yeah man, I tried that, along with select -start, I had a passenger in the car as well. Two-player action.
CD-Car adapters were top-notch ... as long as you had the upgraded CD player that included the 10-sec anti-skip. Only the poor kids had CD players that skipped when you hit a bump.
Yeah, I know, #FirstWorldProblems
 

Case67

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Hi,

I purchased a 2020 JLU Sahara three weeks ago, my first Jeep in 30 years. I've read a number of threads here and elsewhere about the ESS issue, but don't have the technical competence to evaluate them. I have no current intentions to mod my Sahara, though I have and will take it out on trails of some difficulty. For someone like me, is the easiest answer just to turn off the ESS each time I start the car?

Thanks.
 

ToPar9

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Hi,

I just purchased a 2020 JLU Sahara three weeks ago, my first Jeep in 30 years. I've read a number of threads here and elsewhere about the ESS issue, but don't have the technical competence to evaluate them. I have no current intentions to mod my Sahara, though I have and will take it out on trails of some difficulty. For someone like me, is the easiest answer just to turn off the ESS each time I start the car?

Thanks.
It's a good question. I had a Cherokee for 2+ years between Texas and Arkansas heat, and I never had an issue. I disabled it every time I got into the car. I purchased the Wrangler 11 months ago, same behavior, disabled ESS 90% of the time, and now I have the same issues as everyone posting on the boards.
 

DaltonGang

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Disclaimer: I mucho hate ESS. Its the bane of my existence and cause much frustration that leads to much constipation in my life cause of ESS stress (nevermind...) I wish that I can turn it off and it stays off.



I would change the service center if I were you! Those are some basic stuff about batteries and ESS functionality (some people hacked the ESS from working by removing some cables to the battery although the warning light will be on all the time). But not to know simple thing like that - I think he has been playing a little bit too much with his Tinkertoys® and did not graduate from it.



Dude bro!!! Surely you don't mean that!!! While I understand that technically yes it can be a bit of a hassle but I am soooooo happy with my JL because of the upgrades!!! I want to ride this toy of mine everywhere - I love it that I can back up while looking at my camera (now if they come up with aerial 360 parking like Nissan and other brands have my life would be complete!)

I think that the Jeep people still "KISS" (keep it simple stupid) as with the JL we can integrate our lives with the vehicle - such as listening to music via Bluetooth (yes yes I know it does not work all the time - ie with Android Auto) - or talking over the phone handsfree and many other things that are awesome because of upgrades and technologies that make a Jeep a joy to use.

Now my dear friend - surely you don't think that Ford Model T a good vehicle cause what you considered as old skool could be construed as technologically advance compared to the first mass produced Model T.

BUT I hear you bro - I do wish for days when things are so much simpler and less complicated.

Also - does ANYONE remember the miracle of this gadget?? I do - but I am soooooo glad that I don't have to use it anymore....

1597712937537.png


By the way those Oculus LED lights from Oracle that has been discussed in other thread (someone mentioned it) reminds me of....

1597713102393.png


or

1597713378593.png


Also ToPar - have you tried the Konami code on your car?? It usually fixes everything - in my desperation I always regress to try to up up down down left right left right B A - Start. Give it a shot. :giggle:
I love the engine, tranny, A/C, Alpine Stereo, and suspension. The rest is fluff, that is not necessarily needed for a daily driver and an off road machine.


.
 

Jelllo

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No. The procedure is to come at it from the top...... remove the fuse box and start working down.

this is why I recall want someone to come up with a “dual battery tray kit” that will house the main battery AND the relocated AUX battery right up top where both are easy to get to WHEN replacement is needed.
Actually the factory service manual states to remove it from below, through the inner fender.
battery.aux.PNG
 

Rhinebeck01

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Actually the factory service manual states to remove it from below, through the inner fender.
@Jelllo

You are correct.. you can get at the Aux from above but..... A lot more to the exchange, going from up above though.. A lot more to screw up, too.

Two of my friends are Techs at dealerships.... they both have done the Aux battery replacement and they do it as per the factory service manual.... from below.

I actually watched one of the techs, change out an Aux battery on a 3.6, JL. Removal and replacement of the Aux., was done as per the info you just posted/factory service manual. The exchange was pretty straight forward.....
 

ToPar9

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Actually the factory service manual states to remove it from below, through the inner fender.
That's what I was afraid of. This makes sense to me, than disassembling the battery housing, removing the battery, fuse box, etc...

$20 they destroy my T-Tapped wire.
 

jeepoch

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I'll admit up-front, I'm the odd-ball here.

While most people want to rip ESS the hell out of their rig altogether, trample on the Aux battery, wrap the entire feature around a stick of dynamite and create a crater somewhere on their local FCA dealership showroom floor, I on the other hand actually like it. But not for how it came about. Still, I sort of miss it when it misbehaves.

Don't get me wrong, I totally despise the entire design of the Aux battery, and the way it was implemented. However, being a former Powertrain Software Engineer (at Chrysler), I also comprehend a few things about it that some may not realize:

A. This feature would (never) have been implemented, if it wasn't for the VERY heavy hand of Uncle Sam.

B. The pretty extreme and aggressive policies of the EPA bureaucracy has mandated the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards such that nearly all internal combustion engine (ICE) power plants would (by intent) now fail. Not all but the vast majority, especially everything larger than four cylinders, would no longer be able to pass these stricter standards without some radical help.

C. Some of this help comes in the form of a system called electronic stop start (ESS) which shuts itself off at every opportunity it can do so, independent of anyone's opinion about it. It does this in order to accomplish a decrease in overall fuel consumption and a decrease in emitted pollutants, in order to even marginally comply with these so called deceptively named "carbon footprint" standards but I digress.

D. So don't blame FCA for the reason why it [ESS] is in your rig, blame the voters for electing the progressive politicians who made these overly strict standards mandatory.

E. The Aux battery sort of proves FCA's reluctance to go along with the program. It is nothing more than the lowest possible cost, 'bolt on' solution to satisfy these latest environmental (green / olive drab) policies.

F. However, failure to comply would mean one of two things:
1. The cost of your Jeep would be way higher still (if that's even imaginable), because the carbon tax liability would, (as always) be passed down to the consumer.
2. You would not have a Jeep to purchase at all. Maybe some 4xe variant that will probably leave you stranded in the middle of some forest with no way to plug in.

G. Be very thankful that FCA found some wiggle room (loophole perhaps) within the EPA rules to at least give the end user the ability to disable it (even temporarily). This system could very well have been engineered to be way more tamper resistant. Don't think for a minute there may not be new laws preventing any ESS disable (period) in the future. Unfortunately for all you ESS haters, we're clearly heading in that direction. The more ways you come up with in which to permanently defeat it will mean even more environmentalist pushback on the politicians to remove all of the EPA loopholes completely. Elections do indeed have consequences.

So I clearly hate how ESS came about (undemocratic or rather Democrat, nanny-state bureaucrats, depending on your political bent) toward forcing (by law) its implementation. On this issue call me anti-liberal for having the opinion of NOT allowing each driver to determine exactly how to configure their own Jeep.

Clearly, the vast majority of ESS hatred here could give a rats ass about the greater good idea. Otherwise they would totally love and embrace ESS for what it actually is. The kum-by-ahh of all possible vehicle features. It should make everybody feel good in helping Mother Nature?

It's unfortunately just another little erosion of personal freedom in the guise of protecting the planet. I just wish sometimes that people would vote the way that would truly make them happy. But alas, everything worthwhile is generally cloaked to appear as something different. Save the planet, save the whales, seals, polar-bears but don't you dare save my ability to live without ESS.

I however (independent of the politics) really admire the technology of pulling ESS off. The physics behind starting a modern ICE power plant is not trivial. Sure some will say given a proper amount of angular crankshaft momentum, the correct amount of fuel to air (stoichiometric) ratio and a properly timed ignition source (spark), and everything is automatic. Maybe with old carburators and analog spark advance, but that is now the folly of your grandfathers age. However, that generation of low sophistication created the absolute worst combustion chamber thus creating the absolute worst possible pollutants.

Engineering is the art of compromise. In this case simplicity is sacrificed for lower emissions, and fuel consumption. ESS is just another twist to this new complexity.

Starting the engine today requires the application of some pretty high level math algorithms with units in milliseconds of pulse width fuel injected and tenths of degrees of firing the ignition for each cylinder around its top-dead-center position. For ESS start, all within a single revolution of the crankshaft. Granted with a controlled stop (engine shutdown), the computer can place the crankshaft in the most optimal location to start everything back up efficiently. Still pretty damn impressive nonetheless.

Lastly, I too am seriously leaning towards the Genesis Dual Battery solution. Just about every time I come off the trail and air up using a portable compressor with the engine running, I too later experience the "ESS Not Ready - Battery Protection Mode" warning. So the Aux battery is likely way too small for just about any off-road operation.

I have also found that this condition will only clear, 'by itself' by turning the ignition off for a long period of time. Typically in the span of many hours, like overnight. I believe the intelligent battery sensor (IBS) builds up parasitic capacitance under extended high stress engine operation (low RPM) and requires time to bleed away when all charging has stopped (really counter-intuitive). Or it can immediately be cleared by a full reset of the engine controller itself, which likely also resets the IBS. Either procedure sucks. So I just deal without having ESS on the drive home.

Furthermore I do disable ESS on the trail, or anytime I'm in 4WD for safety reasons, otherwise I do really enjoy it. Playing with engaging it (via brake pedal pressure) in various red-light scenarios. I found it helps keeps me engaged and more alert to traffic flow when both approaching and anticipating leaving the intersection. It [ESS] makes it such that it's no longer mind numbingly painful just waiting and wasting time at red-lights.

This does likely make me truly an odd-ball. Especially since I really despise how this all came to be.

Admittedly software geeks tend to be odd by definition.

Jay
 
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