Dual battery questions

[NJRadioGuy]

Hi all,
In the next few weeks I will be starting the overlanding component of my '22 JLUR build and I would like to solicit some advice on a number of fronts, but let's start off with house power first. Since the JL is a relatively small vehicle, finding space to mount a power station is a bit difficult. As such I'm considering a dual battery setup instead, mounting everything in the rear floor cubbyhole space. I've only seen a couple of videos on Youtube, but absolutely nothing in the last three years and I'm wondering if that kind of thing has any serious downsides or has fallen out of favor somehow.

My thought was a Renogy or Victron, 30 or 40A DC-DC charger, a Bluetooth module, and two 50AH LiFePO4 batteries in parallel. For a load it will be a fridge, and chargers for my electronics (eventually a drone battery, but not right away), and some camp lights. I don't plan on running an induction cooker or a fancy coffee machine, etc, so it's just very modest DC draws. I can't think of the last time I needed to plug into the AC ports, although if I get a diesel heater I will probably need to do that.

At the moment I'm using an Ecoflow River Plus (750WH, LiON technology) and it's OK for powering the fridge for about 36 hours in the summer, but after about 4 or 5 days I find I'm drawing more current than is getting back into it when I'm out exploring for the day, and by the time I'm ready to drive home the Ecoflow is often far below 20% capacity or I have to run it on the starter battery for the final day. Obviously a 7 to 10 day trip would be out of the question with my current setup.

Obviously an Ecoflow Delta 2 or Delta 3 would be an improvement, but it's a pretty big unit, whereas a house battery system fits under the floor and takes no otherwise-usable space, and provides the same capacity. I suspect the dual battery setup will be more expensive than a Delta 2 or Delta 3, and a lot harder to install, but in the end, I'm really wanting to maximize internal space. Am I overthinking this? Am I nuts for looking toward this solution instead of a Delta 2 or 3? Is there another option I maybe haven't considered?

Please and thanks in advance.

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[THAW]

It appears you have a solid grasp of the tradeoffs between an inbuilt battery system and a power station. And, I believe your plan is solid.

A few observations:

• A diesel heater shouldn't require AC power
• Solar charging capability might be beneficial
• [Devil's advocate] Re the existing power station, it might be possible to increase charging current to better support power requirements

 

[Spartywarrior]

Hi all,
In the next few weeks I will be starting the overlanding component of my '22 JLUR build and I would like to solicit some advice on a number of fronts, but let's start off with house power first. Since the JL is a relatively small vehicle, finding space to mount a power station is a bit difficult. As such I'm considering a dual battery setup instead, mounting everything in the rear floor cubbyhole space. I've only seen a couple of videos on Youtube, but absolutely nothing in the last three years and I'm wondering if that kind of thing has any serious downsides or has fallen out of favor somehow.

My thought was a Renogy or Victron, 30 or 40A DC-DC charger, a Bluetooth module, and two 50AH LiFePO4 batteries in parallel. For a load it will be a fridge, and chargers for my electronics (eventually a drone battery, but not right away), and some camp lights. I don't plan on running an induction cooker or a fancy coffee machine, etc, so it's just very modest DC draws. I can't think of the last time I needed to plug into the AC ports, although if I get a diesel heater I will probably need to do that.

At the moment I'm using an Ecoflow River Plus (750WH, LiON technology) and it's OK for powering the fridge for about 36 hours in the summer, but after about 4 or 5 days I find I'm drawing more current than is getting back into it when I'm out exploring for the day, and by the time I'm ready to drive home the Ecoflow is often far below 20% capacity or I have to run it on the starter battery for the final day. Obviously a 7 to 10 day trip would be out of the question with my current setup.

Obviously an Ecoflow Delta 2 or Delta 3 would be an improvement, but it's a pretty big unit, whereas a house battery system fits under the floor and takes no otherwise-usable space, and provides the same capacity. I suspect the dual battery setup will be more expensive than a Delta 2 or Delta 3, and a lot harder to install, but in the end, I'm really wanting to maximize internal space. Am I overthinking this? Am I nuts for looking toward this solution instead of a Delta 2 or 3? Is there another option I maybe haven't considered?

Please and thanks in advance.

Get the EC alternator charger and a delta Max 2. Unlimited battery power. Charges at 800w. Easy install and much better than dual setup.

 

[NJRadioGuy]

• A diesel heater shouldn't require AC power

Several Youtube videos have described problems with diesel heaters not getting sufficient current from a power station's 12V port to heat the glow plugs at startup, with the solution being a 120 to 12V 'brick' that can get the job done.

Get the EC alternator charger and a delta Max 2. Unlimited battery power. Charges at 800w. Easy install and much better than dual setup.

With sufficient space in the vehicle this is clearly the better choice, however a JL isn't a JT and interior space is super tight considering I don't have a rooftop tent, and will have to fit at minimum one Gazelle T-4 tent, cot, sleeping gear, two chairs, two small tables, a fridge and a couple of Plano boxes. More if my wife comes with me (and less storage since I use the passenger footwell for storage when I'm solo).

Frankly I'd prefer the simplicity to an Ecoflow system, and if I had a rooftop tent it would be a no-brainer, but these ancient knees and us two big old folks can't handle ladders 2 or 3 times a night, so I have to stuff the Jeep to bursting as it is.

 

[Spartywarrior]

Several Youtube videos have described problems with diesel heaters not getting sufficient current from a power station's 12V port to heat the glow plugs at startup, with the solution being a 120 to 12V 'brick' that can get the job done.



With sufficient space in the vehicle this is clearly the better choice, however a JL isn't a JT and interior space is super tight considering I don't have a rooftop tent, and will have to fit at minimum one Gazelle T-4 tent, cot, sleeping gear, two chairs, two small tables, a fridge and a couple of Plano boxes. More if my wife comes with me (and less storage since I use the passenger footwell for storage when I'm solo).

Frankly I'd prefer the simplicity to an Ecoflow system, and if I had a rooftop tent it would be a no-brainer, but these ancient knees and us two big old folks can't handle ladders 2 or 3 times a night, so I have to stuff the Jeep to bursting as it is.

 

[Spartywarrior]

[/You would be surprised how easy it is to store the larger Delta 2 max. I have that and the extra battery no problem. Maybe go for the smaller Felta 2. Rumor has it that EC will be coming up with connector for EC alternator charger very soon. Doing away with the XT 60i connector for the River series. Hate this term but "game changer". Then you would be charging the river at 800 w. Way quicker.]

 

[NJRadioGuy]

I think that alternator charger is already out, at least as I understand it. But the Delta 2 and Delta 3 are both very big units that take up a tremendous amount of space. My JL is my daily driver and we often carry passengers with it, so a 40% or 60% rear seat delete can't happen. The 60% side is folded down to fit the tent and other gear, so that leaves the footwell of the driver's side rear seat and a slew of temporary wiring that I have to install and remove with each camping trip.

At the moment, I'm running the Ecoflow River on a shelf and tied down with bungee cords but having that much weight up there is a bad idea to begin with, let along something bigger and heavier. Between the fridge and the back of the driver's side back seat is another possibility, but again, I don't think I can fit a dual-zone fridge on a slide and a Delta series power station in that space.

What we need is someone to custom build a drop-in solution made specifically for that JL storage space.

 

[Slate]

There is a guy on Youtube - Trail Recon, that might be a good resource. He is a retired military guy who got into the overland and Jeep hobby after retirement. He has some good videos on his thought process and what has worked for him.

I find it interesting for sure. He is in the Southwest, so you have to think of the terrain, sunlight for solar to charge batteries, etc.

I think the Ecoflow, Jackery systems have really made things easier in terms of power management. I have the Genesis system for my fridge, winch, etc., but I don't do overlanding, and I have a Jackery as well.

I know some guys have the Redarc system to help manage all that as well.

Do you have the ability to use solar? I know some guys will do that, when they can, and of course most guys will charge up their house systems when they are out wheeling with the engine running, etc.

Just thinking out loud as a 7-10 day trip is no joke for sure.

 

[NJRadioGuy]

I'm in New Jersey and all my travels are in the U.S. northeast with plenty of forests, so solar doesn't make a lot of sense for my use-case.

I follow Brad's channel and have for years. I wish I had the kind of money he does for his builds, but no way I'm building out a $200,000+ Jeep on my own dime. He's got sponsors and can afford the best-in-class for everything. Same thing with Casey250 and Shaun (TSTN) in Canada, and I'm a Patreon of ASPW in Australia and Ozark Overland Adventures in Arkansas as well. I follow all their builds, but I've got to be a bit more practical and budget conscious. Not cheap, but not best-in-class either.

But in this case, the issue is space, pure and simple. If anybody here is running a 1000WH or greater power station in a JL, would you please post a couple of photos to see how you've run the wiring--preferably if it's semi-permanent, for both charging and distribution? That cubbyhole beneath the back floor is really the perfect space since it will be covered up by a plate system, at least one drawer, and my fridge/slide. If there was any way to fit a power station in there I'd love to do it. Otherwise I have to figure out the best and safest spot to put an Ecoflow.

 

[AndySpill]

I'm getting the impression, that under your proposed design, that your dual LiFePO4 house batteries will be charged off a running engine and DC to DC charger.

If so, I suppose we can presume that cabin temperature will, during such times exceed, or be capable, care of the vehicle's heat, to exceed freezing: a requirement as I suspect you know for Lithium chemistry (be it your LiON Ecoflow, or the proposed LiFEPO4's). But as mentioned, adding a solar component, even if its a panel that sits along side the vehicle, might allow you to work with a smaller house battery footprint: space being a consideration you've mentioned.

Of course solar alone adds no heat, so charging, if you're out in the cold, might be an issue if you don't acquire heaters for your LiFePO4 batteries or LiFEPO4 batteries with built in heaters: those heaters of course coming at additional expense and longer charge times.

I own, and recommend, and yet I am no great fan of the Renogy DC-DC solar charger https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50a-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ because I haven't found any other product (which of course is not to say it doesn't exist or can't be "home grown") that allows both the running engine and a solar panel to charge either/both the house or starter battery systems.

 

[NJRadioGuy]

I'm getting the impression, that under your proposed design, that your dual LiFePO4 house batteries will be charged off a running engine and DC to DC charger.

If so, I suppose we can presume that cabin temperature will, during such times exceed, or be capable, care of the vehicle's heat, to exceed freezing: a requirement as I suspect you know for Lithium chemistry (be it your LiON Ecoflow, or the proposed LiFEPO4's). But as mentioned, adding a solar component, even if its a panel that sits along side the vehicle, might allow you to work with a smaller house battery footprint: space being a consideration you've mentioned.

Of course solar alone adds no heat, so charging, if you're out in the cold, might be an issue if you don't acquire heaters for your LiFePO4 batteries or LiFEPO4 batteries with built in heaters: those heaters of course coming at additional expense and longer charge times.

I own, and recommend, and yet I am no great fan of the Renogy DC-DC solar charger https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50a-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ because I haven't found any other product (which of course is not to say it doesn't exist or can't be "home grown") that allows both the running engine and a solar panel to charge either/both the house or starter battery systems.

I was planning on either the Victron or Redarc DC-DC charging system, but the Renogy is certainly budget-friendly.

You certainly bring up a good point regarding temperature. My understanding is that the batteries are fine in the kinds of heat that one would expect in an enclosed space inside a vehicle in the summer, but since I park outside, and the fridge will be operational year-round, winter operations might be a bit more problematic since they can't be charged below freezing. I hadn't thought of that. I don't go camping in the winter, but I would like to have the convenience of the fridge running during the cold weather months for shopping runs or just for a cold tin of Coke Zero when I'm out visiting friends, etc. An excellent point indeed!

I suppose I could just buy a 100W solar panel for deployment whilst camping, but where I go is usually in deep forests in VT, VA, and WV so there's not a lot of sunshine reaching my usual campsites in those locales. Having it while driving would help, but with a DC-DC charger it's kind of irrelevant.

 

[Spartywarrior]

I'm in New Jersey and all my travels are in the U.S. northeast with plenty of forests, so solar doesn't make a lot of sense for my use-case.

I follow Brad's channel and have for years. I wish I had the kind of money he does for his builds, but no way I'm building out a $200,000+ Jeep on my own dime. He's got sponsors and can afford the best-in-class for everything. Same thing with Casey250 and Shaun (TSTN) in Canada, and I'm a Patreon of ASPW in Australia and Ozark Overland Adventures in Arkansas as well. I follow all their builds, but I've got to be a bit more practical and budget conscious. Not cheap, but not best-in-class either.

But in this case, the issue is space, pure and simple. If anybody here is running a 1000WH or greater power station in a JL, would you please post a couple of photos to see how you've run the wiring--preferably if it's semi-permanent, for both charging and distribution? That cubbyhole beneath the back floor is really the perfect space since it will be covered up by a plate system, at least one drawer, and my fridge/slide. If there was any way to fit a power station in there I'd love to do it. Otherwise I have to figure out the best and safest spot to put an Ecoflow.

 

[dpike]

i have a GZ Yeti 1000X in the rear passenger footwell of my JLU. i have the rear seats removed and the rear seating area and cargo area platformed over. the set up works perfect for me and charges from my aux set up while driving or i throw out a panel if need me. electric blankets while camping are a game changer.

 

[NJRadioGuy]

This is essentially how I have my setup now with my River Plus. It's above the fridge on the shelf. I move it and the fridge into the Jeep when I'm about to go on a trip, but it comes back out when I come home. I'm a bit worried about it flying forward in the event of a bad crash, however, even tied down. Also having that much weight that high up isn't ideal, but that's not a huge concern. this is my current setup for 4-5 days, more or less. I will use ratchet straps rather than bungees for the power station next time, and I hope to have a dual-zone Iceco to replace the budget JP-40 this year as well.

i have a GZ Yeti 1000X in the rear passenger footwell of my JLU. i have the rear seats removed and the rear seating area and cargo area platformed over. the set up works perfect for me and charges from my aux set up while driving or i throw out a panel if need me. electric blankets while camping are a game changer.

As you can see from the above photo, I have to keep the passenger back seat folded down to store the five foot long Gazelle T-4 tent, and that precludes convenient access to the back/right footwell.

 

[THAW]

Several Youtube videos have described problems with diesel heaters not getting sufficient current from a power station's 12V port to heat the glow plugs at startup, with the solution being a 120 to 12V 'brick' that can get the job done.

Fair point. Shouldn't be an issue with a standalone battery bank.

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