Does anyone actually like start-stop

[Sean L]

That sounds like a big number, until you compare it with what your total fuel cost was over that same time period.

Let's say you drive 20,000 miles a year (probably what you'd have to do to drive an hour per day). Divide by 20mpg, that's 1000 gal/year, 5,000 gal for 5 years, $3/gal that's $15,000. Suddenly that $500 sounds pretty tiny.

Its still 4% over that period of time. Pretty much anyone will still take 4% off rather than nothing off of a recurring cost.

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[Sean L]

You are right it's substantial. Engineers are addressing fuel consumption at idle. FCA and other car companies are switching to electric assisted steering, electric a/c compressors, electric cooling pumps. Not sure about the 3.6 but the 2.0 has a generator, electric assisted steering and cooling pumps for the e-Torque if I am not mistaken? Auxiliary electricity source operates heater, A/C blower fan, audio system, wipers and headlights when the engine is off. It's complex but can be very reliable. Toyota has been doing it for years and has been very reliable. Hopefully FCA is as reliable.

The 3.6 still has the standard alternator and physical pumps. If they do switch the 3.6 over to ETorque like they have on the Ram 1500 then those will be replaced by electric pumps and a Starter/Generator just like the 2.0.

 

[S2k Chris]

Its still 4% over that period of time. Pretty much anyone will still take 4% off rather than nothing off of a recurring cost.

But it's not at zero cost. It costs in being more annoying to drive, IMO, as well as it cost something additional in terms of MSRP to develop and include the technology. Maybe it's a 2% savings if it cost $250 to include the tech in the Jeep in the first place. Frankly, I'll be jabbing the off button every time I get in based on my experience with other applications, so I am turning down that theoretical 4% (much lower for me given the amount of time I idle on my commute, maybe 1-3 min out of 15 based on stop lights.

 

[RussJeep1]

The global warming thing is so politically charged it has taken on a mob like mentality or religious cult aspect. Scientists who disagree are ostracized, complete with body snatcher finger pointing and screams. LOL When it gets like this the rational have a Spock eyebrow up.

The rational also want to clean up stuff where they can without joining the mob or going a nutzo and preaching the global warming religion. If one is in that religion, best they sell the jeep. lol

I also have to wonder about the pollution, it takes to make the extra batteries sensors, along with the weight, also the replacements when they go bad. The gas it takes when they go bad plus what it uses to get to the shop. the hours in lost productivity, on and on. It would be interesting to see the REAL weighted cost of "clean"

Thinking ESS is a pimple when you consider everything and might even cause more. My ESS isnt working right so I've been trying things in an effort to find the problem. Lots of test drives happening, hope my kid doesnt die as a result.....

That's a fair retort Bob. Global warming is a theory and scientists can be wrong, but like you I want to do my part in case a factor in this warming is in fact hydrocarbon combustion.

Still more, I hear you on the "what's the real cost," logic. My favorite analogy here is the cloth diapers one, where the anti-land fill camp, and they have a valid point, also sometimes seem to conveniently forget that something had to heat that water their washing their cloth diapers in. And then there's the cost of the tech to those who don't like it: which have a right to their opinion even I it doesn't bother me, and don't want to have to actively disable it.

ESS is small, and mob mentality can be dangerous.

 

[dangerz]

That's a fair retort Bob. Global warming is a theory and scientists can be wrong, but like you I want to do my part in case a factor in this warming is in fact hydrocarbon combustion.

Still more, I hear you on the "what's the real cost," logic. My favorite analogy here is the cloth diapers one, where the anti-land fill camp, and they have a valid point, also sometimes seem to conveniently forget that something had to heat that water their washing their cloth diapers in.

ESS is small, and mob mentality can be dangerous.

With all due respect, Climate Change is not a theory. This is like saying Gravity is a theory. The evidence for global warming is overwhelming. We are literally seeing record highs, non-stop, every single year across the world. We are then seeing record lows in winter months. This is what Climate Change is. It's not the world getting hotter. It's not the world getting colder. It's our weather becoming more and more extreme.

The amount of scientists that disagree with Climate Change is minuscule compared to the amount that do. There's nothing political about this. Facts are facts.

/rant

I wasn't a fan of the ESS at first, but like someone else said, I accepted it. 4 months into ownership, I rarely even notice it. The only times I do is when it glitches from a quick stop and it throws the "Electronic Start / Stop disabled. Please press clutch to restart." message. I just continue to drive as normal and that message goes away.

 

[twisty]

With all due respect, Climate Change is not a theory. This is like saying Gravity is a theory. The evidence for global warming is overwhelming. We are literally seeing record highs, non-stop, every single year across the world. We are then seeing record lows in winter months. This is what Climate Change is. It's not the world getting hotter. It's not the world getting colder. It's our weather becoming more and more extreme.

The amount of scientists that disagree with Climate Change is minuscule compared to the amount that do. There's nothing political about this. Facts are facts.

/rant

I wasn't a fan of the ESS at first, but like someone else said, I accepted it. 4 months into ownership, I rarely even notice it. The only times I do is when it glitches from a quick stop and it throws the "Electronic Start / Stop disabled. Please press clutch to restart." message. I just continue to drive as normal and that message goes away.

Too funny. If it's not a theory why are all the scientists fighting for research dollars. Why the disappointment found in the hacked emails when research didnt show what they WANTED it to show. There is such bias and such a mob mentality anyone with a brain no matter which side you are on should really be skeptical.

Lets clean up what we can without the sky is falling mentality. Remember when at first it was the earth was going into a man made ice age? Remember the hole in the ozone. remember global warming, now climate change. I swear people are just gullible as heck or they just need a cause.

Or they just want to acknowledge a problem any problem to be a part of the gang that "cares" and that acknowledgement absolves them of being part of the problem no matter how much they pollute.

This is a jeep site, we tear up the earth or drive to the malls in a vehicle about as far from efficient as one can be. If one really believes the sky is falling the real solution is to ditch the jeep and Picket a dealership or factory!! lol

Back on topic ESS sucks for the most part. Mine is broke, I'm guzzling gas at an alarming rate and I like it!

 

[Goin2drt]

I hate it thats why I pay to disable it.

 

[smithrd65]

I like it

 

[SilverSahara]

I've learned that if you don't depress the brake down all the way, you can still stop w/o having to worry about it shutting off. It's very easy to do once you get used to doing it, but tbh it doesn't really bother me one way or another anymore.

Off topic, Waylon is the greatest. Check out "Mike Judge presents: Tales from the tour bus" on Amazon. They have 2 episodes about Waylon told by people around him. Guy loved his dynamite.

 

[d3vils-advocate]

Off topic, Waylon is the greatest. Check out "Mike Judge presents: Tales from the tour bus" on Amazon. They have 2 episodes about Waylon told by people around him. Guy loved his dynamite.

Yeah, I've heard it lol

 

[WranglerMan]

I guess since I don’t use it and can’t stand it I can’t park here, saw this sign while my gas guzzling JLUS was parked just idling away

 

[twisty]

I guess since I don’t use it and can’t stand it I can’t park here, saw this sign while my gas guzzling JLUS was parked just idling away

I would park there with my SUPER low efficient, global warming, climate changing, JLU. I would just put a bunch of weenie greenie stickers on it showing that I care. This is all that it takes. I learned this (same as the other fake greenies) from Al Gore.

When I put on BIG gas guzzling tires I will up the size of the stickers.....

 

[hotkarl]

This could be a deal breaker.
I didn't realize all models had this. Thought it was an option. The dual battery thing plus the annoyance of having to shut the damn thing off every time I start it concerns me. The battery thing alone seems to be a potential horror show at some point.

I purposely ordered a stripped down sport for the simplicity of it. This feature, for me personally kinda defeats the purpose.
I'm contemplating bailing out and getting a JK instead.

 

[Tfom]

I don't understand the hatred with start-stop. This is 15 year old technology - at least. I can tell you from driving other vehicles with it, after you drive it for awhile you won't even notice it.

Also, I've said it before but it bears repeating. Fuel efficiency standards don't have anything to do with carbon emissions. They exist to reduce ozone and particulate emissions. Ozone standards were recently lowered from 75 to 70 ppb. Bringing in newer, more fuel efficient vehicles is going to be the driving factor in meeting that standard, as vehicles are the primary contributor in major metro areas. The connection between ozone and health (And money lost due to health problems) is well established.

Yes, I drive my jeep and it's less fuel efficient than other vehicles I've had. But my commute is short and I needed a bigger vehicle, so there wasn't a ton of trade off that I feel guilty about.

As for the global warming debate. I wish people would do themselves a favor and not listen to the news or biased sources if you want to have an opinion and express it so forcefully. It's not a belief system, it's physics - it either is or it isn't caused by carbon emissions. Most arguments against it I hear sound like a vague rehashing off of some web page that then degrades into just not wanting to believe in it.

FWIW, I don't think technology is going to progress fast enough to make a difference. The short term pain of re-engineering complex integrated systems is too much when measured against a slow moving and widely dispersed threat such as climate change.

 

[JCatherine]

Doesn’t bother me one way or the other. It just is.

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