Checking toe - easy and accurate

[D60]

I checked the toe on my JL today. I'm personally not down with trying to measure off the tires, I dunno how you'd ever accurately hold 1/16", but whatever works for you.

First, I've got these cheap little Bessey clamps. I use them to hold fragile materials to angle plates at my mill, but clearly useful for lots of things. I found they wedge in nicely between the rotor stone shields. Normally I hate these shields and yank them, but I might leave these just for this reason. Having the clamps wedged in place just means I don't need three hands when I clamp my levels to my rotor.

Bump the levels up against the caliper mount (indicated by finger) and level the bubbles. Now you've got two straight edges from which to measure at the same height relative to axle CL and running at the same angle.

Then just bump your tape up against front edge of rotor on the front or caliper mount on rear and measure.

NOTE if you don't have wheel spacers like me you'll want to run a few lugnuts back on to keep the rotor up against the wheel bearing. Use washers as spacers if you think your lugs will penetrate the acorn cap of your nuts [insert Beavis laugh]

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[nerubi]

Damn, I guess the tire shops can get rid of those exlensive machine they use.

 

[Headbarcode]

I checked the toe on my JL today. I'm personally not down with trying to measure off the tires, I dunno how you'd ever accurately hold 1/16", but whatever works for you.

First, I've got these cheap little Bessey clamps. I use them to hold fragile materials to angle plates at my mill, but clearly useful for lots of things. I found they wedge in nicely between the rotor stone shields. Normally I hate these shields and yank them, but I might leave these just for this reason. Having the clamps wedged in place just means I don't need three hands when I clamp my levels to my rotor.

Bump the levels up against the caliper mount (indicated by finger) and level the bubbles. Now you've got two straight edges from which to measure at the same height relative to axle CL and running at the same angle.

Then just bump your tape up against front edge of rotor on the front or caliper mount on rear and measure.

NOTE if you don't have wheel spacers like me you'll want to run a few lugnuts back on to keep the rotor up against the wheel bearing. Use washers as spacers if you think your lugs will penetrate the acorn cap of your nuts [insert Beavis laugh]

Not at all trying to nit pick, just thought I'd mention my own personal findings.

I replaced my tie rod, along with the rest of the steering linkages, right after ditching the factory 285/70-17's for a set of 315/70-17's. I set up very similarly to you, except I used a couple of pin straight angle irons that were a bit longer than the diameter of my tires. I made markings fore and aft on both sides that represented the leading and trailing edges of the tires. Not having an 8' long vernier caliper, I was forced to use a tape measure which got me a final adjustment of a hair under an 1/8".

All was fine until I went with larger diameter tires. Ended up chasing a consistent full on death wobble that kept me off the highways and below 50mph for weeks. Turned out to be the increased toe-in resulting from the larger tire. Dialed it back to 1/16", suggested by a fellow and well known member, and all is right as rain again.

So unless you're going for dead zero, any toe-in at the disc will translate to way too much out at the treads.

 

[D60]

I found 1/8" and set it to 1/16 yesterday

 

[Halstem1]

Not at all trying to nit pick, just thought I'd mention my own personal findings.

I replaced my tie rod, along with the rest of the steering linkages, right after ditching the factory 285/70-17's for a set of 315/70-17's. I set up very similarly to you, except I used a couple of pin straight angle irons that were a bit longer than the diameter of my tires. I made markings fore and aft on both sides that represented the leading and trailing edges of the tires. Not having an 8' long vernier caliper, I was forced to use a tape measure which got me a final adjustment of a hair under an 1/8".

All was fine until I went with larger diameter tires. Ended up chasing a consistent full on death wobble that kept me off the highways and below 50mph for weeks. Turned out to be the increased toe-in resulting from the larger tire. Dialed it back to 1/16", suggested by a fellow and well known member, and all is right as rain again.

So unless you're going for dead zero, any toe-in at the disc will translate to way too much out at the treads.

Question for you because you had a very similar experience to me. You actually reduced to 1/16th at the new tire diameter, correct? Because I agree with what you're saying, as the tire increases, the toe at the "old setting" would be too much. But you found it needed even less toe, right? I've been chasing this toe setting for months. And like you, with nothing else changed, full death wobble with a bad toe setting. I'm certain this is my issue but trying to find that perfect setting for 37" bfgs.

 

[Headbarcode]

Question for you because you had a very similar experience to me. You actually reduced to 1/16th at the new tire diameter, correct? Because I agree with what you're saying, as the tire increases, the toe at the "old setting" would be too much. But you found it needed even less toe, right? I've been chasing this toe setting for months. And like you, with nothing else changed, full death wobble with a bad toe setting. I'm certain this is my issue but trying to find that perfect setting for 37" bfgs.

Yeah, at an 1/8" toe-in it felt unstable at all speeds and would full on death wobble at 50+ mph after every ripple or bump. I reduced it to just under the 1/16" mark, and it was beautiful again.

I recently switched out the factory wheels and 315 ko2's with a set of 17x9 wheels with 4.53" back space and -12 mm offset wrapped in 38x13.50's. I thought it would immediately need the toe-in readjusted back down to compensate for the large jump in diameter, but it hasn't been an issue. I think it's the change to the scrub radius that is helping with stability. Drives better than the day i picked it up.

 

[Shenanigans]

Chalk line works just fine too. Been doing it for years.

 

[Halstem1]

Yeah, at an 1/8" toe-in it felt unstable at all speeds and would full on death wobble at 50+ mph after every ripple or bump. I reduced it to just under the 1/16" mark, and it was beautiful again.

I recently switched out the factory wheels and 315 ko2's with a set of 17x9 wheels with 4.53" back space and -12 mm offset wrapped in 38x13.50's. I thought it would immediately need the toe-in readjusted back down to compensate for the large jump in diameter, but it hasn't been an issue. I think it's the change to the scrub radius that is helping with stability. Drives better than the day i picked it up.

Thanks. I've been doing my toe adjustments myself. I had 2 alignments done and they were setting to "spec" which is a 33" tire and I have a 37". Felt like their toe setting was too much. I probably got to around 1/8-3/16" toe in. Was still having issues. I was going to do reduce to 1/16th but I just did a full steer smarts steering upgrade. They swear by a toe out setting of 1/8-3/16. I have it at exactly 1/8 toe OUT right now. However, still feels a little unstable over over big bumps. The heat here is heaving the concrete so I can almost get DW on demand if I speed up over them. I'm going to try to fine tune their out setting first but if that doesn't work, I'm going to go to IN and start at 1/16 and see what I can do. Thanks.

 

[Roky]

1/16 toe in for me, there’s no silver bullet when it comes to toe, no real right or wrong, just need to do trial and error and see what works best for your wheel/tire setup, IMHO.

 

[Headbarcode]

Thanks. I've been doing my toe adjustments myself. I had 2 alignments done and they were setting to "spec" which is a 33" tire and I have a 37". Felt like their toe setting was too much. I probably got to around 1/8-3/16" toe in. Was still having issues. I was going to do reduce to 1/16th but I just did a full steer smarts steering upgrade. They swear by a toe out setting of 1/8-3/16. I have it at exactly 1/8 toe OUT right now. However, still feels a little unstable over over big bumps. The heat here is heaving the concrete so I can almost get DW on demand if I speed up over them. I'm going to try to fine tune their out setting first but if that doesn't work, I'm going to go to IN and start at 1/16 and see what I can do. Thanks.

Just thought I'd add that I also have the SteerSmarts front track bar, tie rod, and drag link. I install and adjust everything myself, but decided to try conventional toe-in first to see how it felt and leave toe-out as a last resort.

 

[Chance_P]

If you want your alignment specs to be accurate you should be measuring it in degrees and not inches. Depending on how far you take your measurements from the center of the wheel will change the actual toe measurement. 1/8" on a 32" tire is not the same as 1/8" on 37" tires, and certainly not the same as a measurement taken just outside of the rotor.

This calculator will let you input the distance between your measurement points and then convert your measurements to degrees.

https://robrobinette.com/ConvertToeInchesToDegrees.htm

THE OP's method of clamping to the rotor combined with the above calculator is the most accurate way to measure your toe and communicate your alignment specs to other jeepers.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Looks like a good method the OP came up with. Alignment specs for our jeeps is 0.20 degrees, +/- 0.15 degrees.

However, I've watched the best alignment shop in southern california, for both street and real road racing cars, do alignments for decades. Spinning the tire and scribing a fine line on the tire is how they do it. Then they use a bar with a couple pointers to measure the difference front to rear of the tires. I think this too, is a good method.

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