Brake pads make a difference?

[Flip]

My wife and I have been struggling for 2 days to sort this out.

The RED STUFF pads for Jeep are Replacing the Orange Stuff Pads which were a Racing/Off Road pad. Red Stuff is Improved over the Orange.

BUT till the Orange stock is sold the dealers are not selling Red unless you hit on a dealer that has sold out of the Orange and only has Red,...

I finally found a dealer that has the Red Pads for Jeep, we think, we do, I ordered a set (Front only) for my 2024 JLR-X.

Keep tabs on me and I will poast a thread if the Item number is correct: DP 91888 is what we think...they are so new its no one seems to have a good handle on it.

Red stuff, orange, ahh I'll have some of the yella! ?

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[JeepinPete]

Bovine Scatology.

Teraflex calipers have 4 pistons each. Stock has 2 in the front and 1 in the rear.

I have a post here that details the differences and they are substantial.

Doesn't matter. Talking the front only, as the rear provides a small fraction of the total braking force. Two pistons on one side in a sliding caliper delivers the same clamping force as opposed pistons (ie 4 piston calipers). A free body diagram makes this obvious. If Teraflex did increase the piston size, then the clamping force would be increased. Anyone have that measurement?

Directly from Wilwood, caliper piston area: "A calipers piston area is calculated by finding the total piston area from one side of the caliper (this is true for a single piston caliper also)." On the stock calipers, total piston area = 6.346in^2. Assume 1000 psi brake fluid pressure for simple math. Clamping force = 6346 lbs. For the system to be in equilibrium, the opposing pad must also experience 6346 lbs in this example.

In a four piston caliper, same piston area, same fluid pressure, we will also see 6346 lbs on each side. There is no difference in clamping force.

Pete

 

[CarbonSteel]

Doesn't matter. Talking the front only, as the rear provides a small fraction of the total braking force. Two pistons on one side in a sliding caliper delivers the same clamping force as opposed pistons (ie 4 piston calipers). A free body diagram makes this obvious. If Teraflex did increase the piston size, then the clamping force would be increased. Anyone have that measurement?

Directly from Wilwood, caliper piston area: "A calipers piston area is calculated by finding the total piston area from one side of the caliper (this is true for a single piston caliper also)." On the stock calipers, total piston area = 6.346in^2. Assume 1000 psi brake fluid pressure for simple math. Clamping force = 6346 lbs. For the system to be in equilibrium, the opposing pad must also experience 6346 lbs in this example.

In a four piston caliper, same piston area, same fluid pressure, we will also see 6346 lbs on each side. There is no difference in clamping force.

Pete

You are wrong on this. Pistons on one side of the caliper can in NO WAY equate the clamping force of pistons on both sides.

This is easily proven by watching how single sided pistons will flex the caliper and apply lifting force to the side that does not have the pistons thereby resulting in a loss of clamping force.

That same action cannot happen with pistons on both sides of the caliper as it clamps the rotor evenly and suffers no loss of clamping force. To add to this, the Teraflex brakes take 1/2 the pedal travel to begin braking versus the OEM and is directly related to the clamping action on both sides with no loss of clamping power due to flex which your Wilwood formula is not addressing.

The last time I checked the rear brakes work in proportion to the front in a typical 60/40, 65/35, or 70/30 ratio so it is not minimal braking happening in the rear. In the 1960s and 1970s perhaps, but not today.

You really need to look at the Teraflex calipers before making such a definitive statement about how the OEMs will clamp just as hard. They will not...it is simply not possible.

 

[Willys41]

Any one have any doubts on how well the Terafex Delta brakes work is welcome to come to my house and take my jeep for a spin
Your doubts will be put to rest. I guarantee it

 

[CarbonSteel]

Any one have any doubts on how well the Terafex Delta brakes work is welcome to come to my house and take my jeep for a spin
Your doubts will be put to rest. I guarantee it

Agreed! Armchair engineering is no match for seeing in practice.

 

[zouch]

i would be seriously tempted to take you up on that offer, were it not for the proprietary single-sourced rotors. putting that much energy into something for which the source for a wear-item component might dry up spooks me.
which really sucks, because i really like good braking.

[EDIT: i note that Teraflex doesn't even list the Rotors as being available on their own website. Northridge doesn't seem to have them either. really sad, but this helps keep me from being tempted to fall in love with the idea.]

Any one have any doubts on how well the Terafex Delta brakes work is welcome to come to my house and take my jeep for a spin
Your doubts will be put to rest. I guarantee it

 

[Willys41]

zouch
I will be in Oakland Tuesday morning from 8am to 9am with my jeep if you would like to come check it out
I will be at the where College and Claremont cross in the parking behind First Federal Savings off Flroio 6058 College Ave, Oakland

 

[zouch]

thanks; much appreciated.
i may chase you down if i get out wandering that morning.

zouch
I will be in Oakland Tuesday morning from 8am to 9am with my jeep if you would like to come check it out
I will be at the where College and Claremont cross in the parking behind First Federal Savings off Flroio 6058 College Ave, Oakland

 

[Willys41]

Ok
Look forward to meeting you

 

[Willys41]

zouch
I see you could not make it today put if you are ever in Pleasanton you are welcome to come by and check out the brakes
Next upgrade will be PSC HYDRO ASSIST
Happy New year

 

[zouch]

thanks Larry, but my enthusiasm for this setup seriously waned when i found the rotors are proprietary and the manufacturer (Teraflex) doesn't even make them available via their own website.

we should probably plan a gathering of the Willys' someday anyway!

zouch
I see you could not make it today put if you are ever in Pleasanton you are welcome to come by and check out the brakes
Next upgrade will be PSC HYDRO ASSIST
Happy New year

 

[Willys41]

Sounds good

 

[Willys41]

zouch
I did some calculations
After about 10k miles on the Teraflex brakes they still look like new. No rotor wear
This is because the brake are not being over texted or over heated
I figure I will get about 50k more or less out of a set of pads
I put abut 6250 miles a year on my Willys
In about 8 years I will have to do my first pad replacement and in 16 years my second
In 16 years I will be 82 years old and the Teraflex brakes will probably still going strong put I don't Know about me. lol

 

[roaniecowpony]

i would be seriously tempted to take you up on that offer, were it not for the proprietary single-sourced rotors. putting that much energy into something for which the source for a wear-item component might dry up spooks me.
which really sucks, because i really like good braking.

[EDIT: i note that Teraflex doesn't even list the Rotors as being available on their own website. Northridge doesn't seem to have them either. really sad, but this helps keep me from being tempted to fall in love with the idea.]

It really doesn't worry me, because of several variables that I can't predict and all of it can be solved with money.

1. I don't know how long I'll keep the jeep
2. When would the rotors need replacing?
3. Will Teraflex still produce them by the time I need them?
4. Will a similar performing brake system be available if Teraflex isn't available?
5. You can always reinstall the OEM brakes.

When you really lay it all out, it starts to become apparent that trying to predict what will happen in the future is futile. In the scheme of things, this is small potatoes.

If you're really worried, buy an extra set of rotors. My guess is that you'll never need them.

 

[Whaler27]

Teraflex kit is said to be best, search forum for supporters.

Not “best” but certainly much better, and they have a cool self-bleeding feature that make the installation even easier.

Alcon is much better, but they are expensive.

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