Automatic vs. Manual Sales Split

[wibornz]

FYP Ted

Personally, I would like a 2dr manual as a second Jeep. The automatic is better, but a manual 2dr would be fun to zip around in.

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[blnewt]

Personally, I would like a 2dr manual as a second Jeep. The automatic is better, but a manual 2dr would be fun to zip around in.

Yeah, I have a feeling you would have a good use for it

 

[Cutterone]

I have and will continue to blame Jeep drivers for the manual transmission "issue". Friction generates heat, that's some physics 101. For you to burn a Jeep down, you would have to generate inordinate amounts of clutch slip without stopping. Which indicts Jeep drivers for being comically inattentive, or dense, or having no sense of feel, or any combination thereof. If the first symptom you notice of a bad clutch is the resultant fire, or the molten fragments shot through the chassis, then the buck is on you. If you are attentive, and understand the mechanics of a manual transmission, you will not be burning your Jeep down.

All clutches wear. It's a wear item. When it's worn, it will slip. Most every other car community deals with worn clutches, especially on older/vintage cars, and they do so without catastrophically burning their car down. Take some 80s sports car forum, they have far more worn clutches in their ranks than the relatively new JL. But the only special people that will keep driving it while it slips until it turns volcanic are Jeep people.

Its not the clutch failing that is the issue, its its tendency to fracture and blast thru the bell housing, possibly rupturing the fuel line and causing an immediate and catastrophic fire, endangering all aboard. Thats why I went ahead with a CF2, I'm not taking that chance with my kids...

 

[LatteSipper]

100% of JL Wranglers sold in my household are MT. It’s fun, I like it, the family likes it, we just took it to the beach again and had a great time. That’s all that matters. Eventually I’ll replace the OEM clutch.

So much pissing in this thread.

 

[hoch]

Its not the clutch failing that is the issue, its its tendency to fracture and blast thru the bell housing, possibly rupturing the fuel line and causing an immediate and catastrophic fire, endangering all aboard. Thats why I went ahead with a CF2, I'm not taking that chance with my kids...

Are you going to see about getting reimbursed through Jeep? I’d be curious to see how that turns out.

 

[west tex]

I've owned and driven a lot of MT vehicles in my 71 years. Had lots of offroad experience with MT vehicles.

But these days, the auto transmissions have been refined to the point that they now are superior to the current manuals in many respects. Recent offroad experience in my '21 Wrangler with the 2.0T and ZF8spd auto has made a believer out of me.

While I can appreciate the attractions of the MT the tea leaves seem to indicate that manuals are a vanishing breed.

 

[Chile1]

True, they are indeed rare AF. But if I remember correctly the two door is more likely to be manual transmission than the four door.

i have a a rare AF 4 door manual so i have a collectors item... All joking aside, for a Jeep Wrangler, i wouldn't have it any other way...

 

[drpericak]

I traded in my manual JLUR on a new one back in December. It was even Bikini Pearl and loaded up. It sat there for a while. I couldn't believe it. I would've though it would have been gone in a matter of days. People just don't know how to drive. I bet a lot of buyers looked at the color and were disappointed that they were millennials.

 

[Scott's Willy]

I've owned and driven a lot of MT vehicles in my 71 years. Had lots of offroad experience with MT vehicles.

But these days, the auto transmissions have been refined to the point that they now are superior to the current manuals in many respects. Recent offroad experience in my '21 Wrangler with the 2.0T and ZF8spd auto has made a believer out of me.

While I can appreciate the attractions of the MT the tea leaves seem to indicate that manuals are a vanishing breed.

I think you are spot on with your comment. There are some who will always prefer a MT because of their enjoyment at the experience of driving a MT or it's more fun to drive than an AT. From a performance standpoint, I'm not sure there is an argument to be made for a MT anymore. I'm sure there will be some that disagree with that statement and that's fine.

In 20, 30 ,40 years there will be the same discussion about autonomous vehicles versus human directed vehicles. Well, not when it comes to wheeling though...

 

[Wabujitsu]

People a getting really lazy. Look at the roof options over the last 20 years. People pay huge $$$$ for those one touch sky tops. Too lazy to take the hard top off. Even the roof panels. Nobody wants to pop them off and leave them in a garage or stuff bag in the back. Get those sun rider pop back things. Looks ugly as hell ripped back and piled up. But it was easy.

Guilty as charged. My disabilities have made me lazy, when it came to removing the hard top on my previous Jeep, and my wife’s current Jeep. I’ve had one shoulder replaced, the other one needs to be replaced, and I’ve had two back surgeries. But, that’s no excuse for my laziness. So, I gave into my lazy ways, and traded in for a JLUR with the SOT.

Florida weather has also exacerbated my laziness. The pop-up showers and storms that seem to come out of nowhere, causing me to have to button-up the Jeep at very inconvenient times, have also made me lazy. I’m embarrassed to say that I prefer just pushing a button instead of driving back home during a driving rainstorm to put a hardtop back on the Jeep.

I‘ve driven lots of MTs, and loved them. At one point in my life I swore I would never buy a vehicle with an AT. Laziness, however, reared its ugly head over that one too. It’s amazing how sciatica can make one lazy with a clutch pedal. That again is no excuse for my laziness.

In addition to that laziness, I came to realize that ATs generally have more long term reliability than MTs these days, so I made a personal decision to choose an AT in later years of vehicle ownership.

There I go again! Using logic in my personal decision is just another excuse for me being lazy, I guess…

 

[Albertaktm]

Guilty as charged. My disabilities have made me lazy, when it came to removing the hard top on my previous Jeep, and my wife’s current Jeep. I’ve had one shoulder replaced, the other one needs to be replaced, and I’ve had two back surgeries. But, that’s no excuse for my laziness. So, I gave into my lazy ways, and traded in for a JLUR with the SOT.

Florida weather has also exacerbated my laziness. The pop-up showers and storms that seem to come out of nowhere, causing me to have to button-up the Jeep at very inconvenient times, have also made me lazy. I’m embarrassed to say that I prefer just pushing a button instead of driving back home during a driving rainstorm to put a hardtop back on the Jeep.

I‘ve driven lots of MTs, and loved them. At one point in my life I swore I would never buy a vehicle with an AT. Laziness, however, reared its ugly head over that one too. It’s amazing how sciatica can make one lazy with a clutch pedal. That again is no excuse for my laziness.

In addition to that laziness, I came to realize that ATs generally have more long term reliability than MTs these days, so I made a personal decision to choose an AT in later years of vehicle ownership.

There I go again! Using logic in my personal decision is just another excuse for me being lazy, I guess…

Good automatics are great to drive. I have an Allison in my truck. I would hate a MT in my pickup. But for me anyway, a Wrangler HAS to be a manual. It’s like getting a Harley with automatic transmission. I should be against the law?

 

[STW]

My own enjoyment of driving a manual, and preference for it, was not enough all by itself to justify buying the manual transmission option--in the past.

Back then the manual transmission was almost always a better component than the auto you could get in the same vehicle:
1) in the past the manual was stronger and more reliable,
2) in the past the manual got better gas mileage,
3) in the recent Jeep TJ past, the manual had over-drive and the auto didn't.

For example, even the lowly 2.5L TJ AX-5 manual was a strong 5-speed while the auto option for the 2.5 TJ was a..........three speed(!) with 3rd gear at 1:1 ratio.

So of course you'd always choose the stronger, better-built, higher quality transmission. And if you couldn't drive stick, you'd learn just so you could drive the stronger, better transmission. I drove my TJ AX-5 transmission for 23 years on the original clutch on 33"s with the original 4.10 gears. That original clutch is still going strong for the second owner. That AX-5 and its clutch were nothing special. It's just that the standard for manual transmissions used to be high so even an average transmission like the AX-5 was a stand-out in retrospect.

Even so, the best rock crawling drivers would say back then that sucky 3speed auto was a better rock crawling transmission because of the torque converter. So you might prefer your manual because it was stronger and better, more repairable, more efficient, and because you preferred to drive stick, but you knew you were giving up a bit of performance on some trails by not having the torque converter. No problem, you'd build and gear your Jeep so it would crawl well at idle speed in manual 1st gear, and it was worth it because the manual was a better transmission in all the other ways.

Transmissions have changed, however.

The JLR was my first auto purchase where I had to face the fact that the the ZF8HP transmission was a stronger, higher-quality, better-built transmission than the available manual, and would get better gas mileage.

It didn't help that the the tiny percentage of people choosing the manual had led Jeep and other manufacturers to cut corners on manual transmissions so they weren't like the manual transmissions I was used to, not even the lowly AX-5. Some of those cut-corners can reduce the pleasure of driving stick too, such as weird clutch pedal throw or vague shift lever engagement. Those things are preferences though, and people are different.

So when I ordered my JLR it I found I could not justify choosing the lesser transmission. In the past that meant choosing the manual, but for the JL it was the auto.

 

[BuyHold]

The JLR was my first auto purchase where I had to face the fact that the the ZF8HP transmission was a stronger, higher-quality, better-built transmission than the available manual, and would get better gas mileage.

It is all a negative feedback loop. People gravitate to automatic transmissions because of convenience and improvements in auto transmission technology over time as well as clutch-learning curve that deters a lot of people. Result is that market share proportion of autos grow, manuals shrink. Auto manufacturers invest more in auto transmissions and less in manual transmissions which make auto transmissions better relative to manual transmissions. Consumers buy greater disproportionate amount of auto transmissions, even less manuals. This further disincentivizes auto manufacturers from investing more money into robust manual options and quality/experience deteriorates. Feedback cycle continues until manual transmissions wither off and die.

Jeep TJ-JK-JL evolution perfectly fits this narrative. Jeep engineers and management have gone right along with it.

I have a MT JL and happen to love it but I won't lie that the exploding clutch issues made me consider buying an auto. However, I can't bring myself to do that and I decided that next time I buy a new Jeep, it will be a used one... with a manual... Or a 7sp MT Bronco

 

[wibornz]

I don't see any advantage in the manual transmission any more. Heck if you want to shift, put the auto in manual mode and shift to your hearts desire and then when you want to enjoy a cup of coffee while driving in heavy traffic, put it back into auto mode.

 

[PatrickR]

I don't see any advantage in the manual transmission any more. Heck if you want to shift, put the auto in manual mode and shift to your hearts desire and then when you want to enjoy a cup of coffee while driving in heavy traffic, put it back into auto mode.

It's still lighter, cheaper, more efficient, and faster (slim margins, but still). It also does exactly what you want, not what you request (as in the auto in manual mode).

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