Are LED headlights worth $900?

[Patinito]

Hi Everyone, long time reader first time poster. I’m in the process of ordering my 2019 Rubi (through Craig at Koons) and I’m wanted to get the collective opinion of the forum on two options. wondering if the LED headlights are really worth the extra $900. Won’t some kind of LED aftermarket lights be available forb1/5th the cost?

Also is the hardtop headliner worth it? I had a 97 Sahara back in the day and it didn’t seem that noisy with the hardtop.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-mike

Worth it!

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[aprez27]

You won’t spend $900 but you did. Unless the JL was a gift?

Purchased used with about 8K miles on it. What I meant is I wouldn't spend that after the fact. lol

 

[Agent47]

Easily worth it since you also get the LED taillights, fog lights, and fender lights. The headlights are bright and have a decent cutoff to not blind people. The headlights on their own sell for around that amount used, so if you don’t like them you could always get rid of them and still keep the other LEDs.

 

[MikeLewisMusic]

it is not like the Fender lights improve your visibility and the incandescent's are plenty bright for other to see you. They will likely last longer than most people own their Jeep. The only real illumination non LED shortfall is the head lights and maybe the reverse lights, non LED blinkers and brake are more than sufficient and can be changed to LED lamps easy and cheap. Lets see what song the LED early adopters are singing after 3 years if they have any fail and they have to buy the whole new assembly at $$$$, verses a just replacement lamp... That's the problem with mode LED lighting it is throw away and NOT serviceable. Considering how vulnerable the Side and tail light are again wait till you are replacing Jeeps proprietary LED lights. Those are extremely high profit for Jeep and it makes for residual business.

I feel that way, as well.

I replaced the factory halogens with nice aftermarket DOT-approved LED's (7" mounted in adapters, to which many on here are opposed, but with which I am very satisfied). They include DRL's and turn signals, so that is covered, too--clearing the way for a future light-less fender change, if I decide to go that direction. I have compared them side-to-side with a friend's factory LED's, and I believe mine are more focused and provide at least equivalent, if not better, overall illumination and color.

I replaced the back-up bulbs with LED bulbs recommended here on the forum, and they are very good, as well. Marker lights and turn signals are adequate in my opinion non-LED, and I actually like the non-LED tail lights better....but that is just my own personal taste.

So I would say that if you value all of your lights being LED, definitely get the factory option...it is not really overpriced when you consider all that you get, and it is certainly easier. However, if you only value headlights and maybe backup lights, it can be done in a quality manner for a bit less than half the price with many choices (freeing about $500 up for other mods--I won't pretend it is actually money saved).

Bottom line, it's your call based upon your priorities. You won't be "wrong" either way (no matter what some say).

 

[lightsout]

Look one of the other major issues with LED is maintenance and replacement cost as most of the LED providers including Mopar have weak warranty's , this is the problem you do not just replace a LED lamp you replace the entire fixture which is EXPENSIVE. Forget just the initial cost wait until they Fail. LED is NOT the holy grail of lighting and reliability is not any better than Halogen and other older technologies, whereas in fact it is more vulnerable being electronic and subject to thermal issues.

i own a Commercial LED lighting company we specialize in high end Sports lighting, and to see the rediculas cost of a 100w fixtures (headlight) whereas as per watt it is 5-10 times more expensive than high end commercial LED lighting just goes to show what a CASH COW it is for Mopar and the exploiting aftermarket industry. I prefer a more disposable option such as replacing the Halogen with LED Lamp for 1/4 the cost or less, and if it fails it is s low cost fix.

Other than Head lamps there is no need or significant benefit for LED as they are the other lighting periferral and does not benefit the driver, and even the stock non LED provides plenty of light for others to see.

For the cost of LED tail and headlamps you can buy reasonable quality Light bars that can really enhance your lighting.

So to really answer is $900 (or even $400) LED worth it, my answer is there is One Born Every Day. Remember early adopters NEVER WIN...

 

[mwilk012]

YES.. And don't think that just getting LED bulbs for a halogen housing on any car is a good idea. People put them into housing that aren't designed for the angular light output an LED puts out, and you end up blinding other people, and/or having dark spots in the beam. The OEM ones make a sharp line across the top between the high and low beams.. Plus you get LED everything else as well.. So yes, worth it..

What part of the light itself do you think is actually different between an LED and halogen bulb? I see this said a lot and it makes no sense.

 

[Mrcake3014]

Hi Everyone, long time reader first time poster. I’m in the process of ordering my 2019 Rubi (through Craig at Koons) and I’m wanted to get the collective opinion of the forum on two options. wondering if the LED headlights are really worth the extra $900. Won’t some kind of LED aftermarket lights be available forb1/5th the cost?

Also is the hardtop headliner worth it? I had a 97 Sahara back in the day and it didn’t seem that noisy with the hardtop.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-mike

Just got my 2019 Sahara and got the light package and think it's great. Definitely worth the money more so than the premium sound system. That I was disappointed in.

 

[mwilk012]

Just got my 2019 Sahara and got the light package and think it's great. Definitely worth the money more so than the premium sound system. That I was disappointed in.

You would be even more disappointed in the stock speakers, though if you plan on replacing them all with aftermarket anyway, yea it was a waste.

 

[LincolnSixAlpha]

Hell yea. My 2 cents. That was one of the top two criteria for selecting my vehicle.

 

[MikeLewisMusic]

Look one of the other major issues with LED is maintenance and replacement cost as most of the LED providers including Mopar have weak warranty's , this is the problem you do not just replace a LED lamp you replace the entire fixture which is EXPENSIVE. Forget just the initial cost wait until they Fail. LED is NOT the holy grail of lighting and reliability is not any better than Halogen and other older technologies, whereas in fact it is more vulnerable being electronic and subject to thermal issues.

i own a Commercial LED lighting company we specialize in high end Sports lighting, and to see the rediculas cost of a 100w fixtures (headlight) whereas as per watt it is 5-10 times more expensive than high end commercial LED lighting just goes to show what a CASH COW it is for Mopar and the exploiting aftermarket industry. I prefer a more disposable option such as replacing the Halogen with LED Lamp for 1/4 the cost or less, and if it fails it is s low cost fix.

Other than Head lamps there is no need or significant benefit for LED as they are the other lighting periferral and does not benefit the driver, and even the stock non LED provides plenty of light for others to see.

For the cost of LED tail and headlamps you can buy reasonable quality Light bars that can really enhance your lighting.

So to really answer is $900 (or even $400) LED worth it, my answer is there is One Born Every Day. Remember early adopters NEVER WIN...

I am not a lighting professional, but I have a very different perspective as either a consumer or as an engineering professional:

--Maintenance requirements--are there maintenance requirements for LED headlamps? Or associated maintenance costs? Perhaps I am missing something? I clean the lenses occasionally, but that is about it. I may be neglecting my lights in some way.

--Replacement cost of halogens are cheaper?

• Most halogen bulbs are only rated for 2,000 hr or less vs. 20,000 hr avg lifetime for LED's (actually most LED's are rated for a total life of 50,000-70,000 hours, but they start to degrade in brightness after 20,000 or so, per technical studies--so their life rating is a "useful lifetime").
• Many halogen bulb manufacturers recommend replacement of halogen bulbs every 2 years to maintain "brightness performance". So if one gets high-end halogen bulbs @ $60/pair (benchmark Silverstar zXe's), over 10 yrs he/she will spend $300 in halogens. The 20,000 hour rating of LED's should cover that period easily, and mine cost less than $300--so replacement cost seems to be cheaper for LED.

--A spot check of various LED headlights show a warranty period from 2-5 yrs. This exceeds the average life expectancy of halogen bulbs, not to mention at least double the average halogen warranty (mainly found 1 year warranties). I do recognize diligence is required to ensure the manufacturer backs their warranty, but that can be done with a bit of research--more a function of individual companies, not a characteristic of LED lighting as a technology.

--I benchmarked 100 watt LED work/flood lights for comparison (consumer level lights that I can buy directly--which is how I bought my headlights, as well). They average about $1/watt output for stationary use lights. My aftermarket bulbs ran about $2.56/watt output. Considering they have to be designed for the rigors of mounting on the face of a moving offroad vehicle, this seems reasonable to me.

--While LED's are pretty new as an offering for Jeep Wranglers as a factory option, I found a New York times article from 2008 talking about Lexus and Audi having the first factory LED headlight offerings...so implementing them 10-11 years later doesn't sound like "early adoption".

--While I am not motivated to replace every bulb in the vehicle with LED's personally, I do recognize that there are power consumption, bulb lifetime and quality/color of light advantages in applications in other lights, as well as headlights.

--Most states, light bars are not legal for headlights on the roads, so they are not a viable option as a replacement for adequate headlights.

--If factory halogen lighting provided adequate lighting, there would not be a market for upgrades. Obviously, those interested in upgrading, whether factory or aftermarket, do not find factory halogens as adequate.

Perhaps I'm not seeing the whole picture, which very well could be the case--lighting isn't my area of expertise. But from my perspective, as long as the consumer is happy with the product for the cost and the industry is making sustainable profits on it, I would say that is a win-win for all.

 

[Jondrew]

I like the look of LEDs. And since I’ll probably have spent at least $900 by the time I’m done replacing my current incandescent/halogen lights, it’s probably a bargain. This Jeep has a bunch of other options I liked and I bought it odd the lot.

If I were ordering a Jeep I’d def get the lighting group, HD tow package, premium sound system.

I like the leather seats mine came with, but if if ordering, I might have gone with cloth.

 

[lightsout]

I am not a lighting professional, but I have a very different perspective as either a consumer or as an engineering professional:

--Maintenance requirements--are there maintenance requirements for LED headlamps? Or associated maintenance costs? Perhaps I am missing something? I clean the lenses occasionally, but that is about it. I may be neglecting my lights in some way.

--Replacement cost of halogens are cheaper?

• Most halogen bulbs are only rated for 2,000 hr or less vs. 20,000 hr avg lifetime for LED's (actually most LED's are rated for a total life of 50,000-70,000 hours, but they start to degrade in brightness after 20,000 or so, per technical studies--so their life rating is a "useful lifetime").
• Many halogen bulb manufacturers recommend replacement of halogen bulbs every 2 years to maintain "brightness performance". So if one gets high-end halogen bulbs @ $60/pair (benchmark Silverstar zXe's), over 10 yrs he/she will spend $300 in halogens. The 20,000 hour rating of LED's should cover that period easily, and mine cost less than $300--so replacement cost seems to be cheaper for LED.

--A spot check of various LED headlights show a warranty period from 2-5 yrs. This exceeds the average life expectancy of halogen bulbs, not to mention at least double the average halogen warranty (mainly found 1 year warranties). I do recognize diligence is required to ensure the manufacturer backs their warranty, but that can be done with a bit of research--more a function of individual companies, not a characteristic of LED lighting as a technology.

--I benchmarked 100 watt LED work/flood lights for comparison (consumer level lights that I can buy directly--which is how I bought my headlights, as well). They average about $1/watt output for stationary use lights. My aftermarket bulbs ran about $2.56/watt output. Considering they have to be designed for the rigors of mounting on the face of a moving offroad vehicle, this seems reasonable to me.

--While LED's are pretty new as an offering for Jeep Wranglers as a factory option, I found a New York times article from 2008 talking about Lexus and Audi having the first factory LED headlight offerings...so implementing them 10-11 years later doesn't sound like "early adoption".

--While I am not motivated to replace every bulb in the vehicle with LED's personally, I do recognize that there are power consumption, bulb lifetime and quality/color of light advantages in applications in other lights, as well as headlights.

--Most states, light bars are not legal for headlights on the roads, so they are not a viable option as a replacement for adequate headlights.

--If factory halogen lighting provided adequate lighting, there would not be a market for upgrades. Obviously, those interested in upgrading, whether factory or aftermarket, do not find factory halogens as adequate.

Perhaps I'm not seeing the whole picture, which very well could be the case--lighting isn't my area of expertise. But from my perspective, as long as the consumer is happy with the product for the cost and the industry is making sustainable profits on it, I would say that is a win-win for all.

Mike, the problem is LED has been made out to be the Holy grail of lighting, and most of the benefits are exploited. Understand that life ratings of LED's are based on excelerated testing don in controlled environments and mile ambient temps. Most LED have a 40C (104F) upto 50C (122f) temp rating before catestrophic failure is likely, and if you LED's experience those temps your warranty is void, this is the catch 22 and a warranty marketing scam. So most LED are tested at 25C and all ratings are based on that controlled temp. Now imagine the LED in a plastic fixture (headlight) next to an engine that puts out temps in excess of 150 degrees, Now if you live in a warm southern climate the combination of warm ambient temps and the radiant heat from the engine compartment and the lack of airflow to cool the headlamp is a recipe for premature failure which is the #1 reason LED manufacture for headlamp typically only offer 1-3 year warranty (5 years is the rare exception and usually by a company you have never heard of or is not ion the USA, good luck trying to get serviced as the retailer will not service the warranty) and most are on that lower end of the scale. Also keep in mind this also assumes that any heatsinks on the LED lamp or driver is clean, as any dirt creates a thermal blanket that compounds the thermal issue, it is important to keep that headlight clean, especially the back side. Even when a LED fails you will likely be required to return the LED for testing to see why it failed and if it failed due to electrical current or excessive thermal environment that voids 90% of all LED warranties, even in the commercial world. They have made warranty compliance and access so difficult many warranty's are useless.

Many of the LED headlights have internal fans to help cool them, this is just added active cooling measure and another component to fail that is also impacted by heat and dirt.

So the problem here is the potential/likely cost of replacement since you have to replace the entire fixture and not just the lamp.

Companies can drop the names Cree, Meanwell, Samsung, Osram, Philips as their LED components however it means nothing to a poorly designed LED fixture with subjective thermal management.

Replacing halogens all depends on hours used same with LED as LED also has significant depreciation especially in warmer climates. Considering the average person does not drive that many hours in the dark lets be real. When was the last time most of us replaced a non LED head lamp, for most never or like myself once in 10 years,

Unless you drive many graveyard hours Halogen maintenance is almost non existent. However when it is needed it is only a couple $$$

If LED's manufacture claim their LED'S will last 50,000 hours or more than why the low warranties, I will tell you it is because those numbers are in a perfect world often the LED component estimates and not them installed in a fixture. Marketing LED stats is 100% Hyperbole.

As for putting LED in a moving vehicle, that has NO impact on the LED or the Driver they are all solid state with NO moving parts so vibration has little impact on the life of an LED.

The big problems is you have a Asian commodity market that is making this technology and every one of them knows that have to be the cheapest to compete, that means cutting corners and marketing that makes it seem so good.

In fact they are expecting 25%$ of all the LED manufactures in Chine to shut their doors in the next year, so you do not know if a manufacture will be around, or how they are cutting cost to compete. Then you better learn to speak Chinese to deal with the manufacture for warranty.

Look Halogen also has its short comings, I am not a fan of them except for cost, however, I decided I would buy LED lamps to replace my Halogen ($40 ea) so at least when and if they do fail it is an inexpensive maintenance cost.

Your cost are not accurate, the Asian LED fixture at 100 watts is about $80 if you shop, so lets say $100 ($1 per watt) cost if the LED head lamps lest say the low end $250 ea that is 250 per watt. whereas the 100w replacement LED lamp is $40 ea with is $0.40 per watt that is the real math.

You are right LED light bars are not legal as headlights I never suggested they were, however I only suggested those as suplemental, however they are typically ok for fog lights and back up lights.

The LED industry is still young and they still have not figured out how to effectively manage heat, and because of the electronic nature and the fact Asia is the primary manufacture of LED products (that is changing though) many if the commodity LED product are not any better than the discounted Chinese crap you buy on Ebay.

Frankly Mopar is taking advantage, considering their OEM cost for LED headlights is likely under $50 each and the periferral lighting much less than that they are laughing all the way to the back not considering the safety benefits (better lighting) of LED as standards equipment.

LED Lighting on a $40K-$50K car should be standard equipment

 

[MikeLewisMusic]

Your information is interesting and certainly worth reading through. I respect your skepticism.

Agreed, FCA is likely making a lot of money on LED upgrades, but the vast majority of customers seem pleased with their expenditure...that indicates that market pricing must be pretty fair...and if that makes them good money, there really is nothing wrong with that. No business sells at cost, and different classes of products sell for different margins..which is typically determined by what the market will tolerate. I chose not to buy LED's from FCA, so I am certainly not justifying my own actions.

My math and costs are pretty accurate, I will have to disagree with you there...using LED replacements does change the comparison. I verified (and ID'd) the replacement halogens I quoted and looked up the LED light fixtures. I referenced online...and I compared them to my own actual buying experience. I purposely didn't reference replacement LED's for halogen fixtures, as I don't consider them a responsible choice for me personally. I can see where others might disagree. I do think it is fair to compare the premium halogens to the quality of light output by LED's. Halogen replacements only buy the user 2 years, have to multiply that by 5 to get to the lifetime I was evaluating.

In my experience, I have had LED lighting in a quarter million square foot manufacturing plant, both fixed and portable lighting, both open and enclosed fixtures. Many are active 16-24 hours per day (that is in the 30,000-40,000 hour range for the oldest installations), others frequently switched on and off due to motion sensing automation. No lifetime issues for the diodes themselves, haven't seen any dimming yet per light meter analysis, and no problems getting warranty backing (the few issues I've had have been related to transforming from high AC voltage, which isn't an issue in an all DC system--still got warranty replacement without issue). Not necessarily the same lights hanging on the front of my Jeep...but probably not all that different, either, particularly if one is careful about selecting well reviewed and respected vendors.

As always, to each his own...and YMMV. Good luck to you.

 

[Solidaxle]

Yes, at least $900 if not more . One of the Best options. IMHO

 

[RMojitoJL]

I think it was worth every cent - I love mine, best $886 spent

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