Sponsored

Are 4.10s sufficient?

OP
OP
Aquastream

Aquastream

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
239
Reaction score
473
Location
Fort McMurray, Alberta
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR, Hella Yella, 2.0 T
That's too bad... and not what we want out of our Jeeps for sure. I get it. There was a moment between lifting and going to 35's - and re-gearing - that I thought, Oh no... what have I done?! But once I got in and drove the 4.88's the smile returned to my face and it hasn't left. It's that big a difference. Life's short. Drive what you really want.
Did you go to 4.88s because you live at altitude? From everything i’ve watched, read, or heard, that set up is above average for 315s

Do you love it?
Sponsored

 

jbcrane

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
882
Reaction score
1,817
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
'21.JLU.6MT.GCM.35.4.88.ZEON12
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Technical/Indstrial 3D Animator
Vehicle Showcase
1
Did you go to 4.88s because you live at altitude? From everything i’ve watched, read, or heard, that set up is above average for 315s
Do you love it?
Yes and yes. I was stuck obsessing between 4.56 and 4.88's. I talked to several shops and after I described what kind of driving I do; Colorado high altitude trails, possibly some day an overlanding trailer, and the (remote) possibility of going to 37's down the road - and not wanting to re-gear twice - 4.88's were the overwhelming recommendation.

315's may be a stepping stone - but I am totally happy with them for now. I love how peppy and spirited the Jeep feels again with 4.88's and 315's. So much power it's crazy. Even in 4th and 5th gear. I see 6th gear on the highway and can actually accelerate. I'm not a fast driver, topping out no more than 70-75mph in the rare times I'm cruising interstate, so the need to go 'faster' just isn't there. I want power for how I drive - and 4.88's/315's give me plenty.

By comparison - stock 3.45's felt like the Jeep was really struggling to get going, especially on hills, especially at altitude. 4th was the max in most cases, sometimes 5th, never 6th. I hadn't planned to re-gear when I lifted and went to 315's but it was awful - it felt like I was asking him to do something he barely could and I kept waiting for something to break. It was intolerable. I only drove it like that for about 2 months before it was obvious I needed to re-gear.

I can eagerly recommend 4.88's, but of course it depends how you'll drive yours. I'm a convert for sure. Hope that helps.
 

dragoneggs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Dec 14, 2021
Threads
62
Messages
4,470
Reaction score
15,357
Location
Seabeck, WA
Vehicle(s)
'22 Snazzberry Pearl JLR
Build Thread
Link
Clubs
 
I have no tolerance for lost performance and driveability. I grew up with hot rods and muscle cars and work in the performance aftermarket. Proper gearing is just something you do and I don't understand why so many are adamantly against it in the off-road world. No matter what anyone says, if you go up in tire size along with added weight in doing so, you're taking a hit to acceleration, mileage and overall driveability. It's mathematically impossible not to. If you look at the gear ratios most often recommended when going to 35s, 37s or larger tires it could be argued that the Rubicon on factory 33s and 4.10s is slightly undergeared. I've taken several long road trips since going to 35s (I've put 20k miles on my Jeep since May) and I'm tired of losing 8th gear on long stretches especially when traveling from the Midwest to elevation. I'd hazard to guess that if I had been able to re-gear this spring when I originally placed my order that I would have hung on to 8th gear at least twice as long and as often. In day to day driving, acceleration has taken a noticeable hit and that's with doing everything I could to minimize the impact of going to 35s (my new wheels are 1lb heavier than factory and I went with KO2S that are only 12lbs more than the factory 285s). Mileage is down a full 1-2 mpg as well.
Thanks Kyle. I'm all about performance and reliability on and off road. I'm sitting with a 2dr stock Rubicon 3.6L auto w/that I am moving to a 1.5in Clayton Overland Plus lift w/315 KO2s by years end.

Not really wanting to mess with my 4.10 with the Rock Trac HD full time 4WD factory option. At least until I know what I am messing up!

I have yet to understand what I got in going with that factory option? I am definitely all in for improving performance and drivability but need to understand it from where I sit now.

I appreciate any further insight here!
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,320
Reaction score
7,689
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
I'm not a fast driver, topping out no more than 70-75mph in the rare times I'm cruising interstate, so the need to go 'faster' just isn't there.
This right here is the biggest factor in my opinion why some recommend gears that are too deep for my use. I live 3 miles off of I-5 where EVERYONE is cruising at 80mph+. The jeep sees 85mph almost every time I drive it, and on a road trip to Moab or Telluride it will be required to sustain that speed for 14+ hours. Our roadtrip to Alabama last may with 5.38's and 38's solidified my opinion that our Jeep was better off without deep gears. Even the 4.56's in the XR have me wanting to go to 37's soon to get the freeway rpms where I want them. If you never drive above 70mph, there's no penalty for going LOW. If you set your cruise control at 85mph to keep up with the semis out in AZ, UT, NV, etc you may very well regret going too low.
 

RIVICON

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
62
Reaction score
148
Location
Wesley Chapel, FL
Vehicle(s)
2020 Rubicon, 2006 Tacoma, 1991 Z28 406ci Turbski
I had 35's on my JLUR 3.6 auto with the 4.10 and it drove fine. On the highway it would see mostly 7th gear and on occasion 8th gear. I switched to 37x13.5017 Yokohama Geolandar XAT and around the city and country roads it drives fine. On the highway I only see 8th gear when going on a slight decline but it mostly stays in 6th on flatlands and 7th depending on occupants. Eventually I'll go to 4.56 or 4.88.
 

Sponsored

RubiSc0tt

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Threads
56
Messages
1,357
Reaction score
1,689
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLUR in Punk'n Orange
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Turn Wrenches/ Write code
I run 37's w/ Stock Rubicon 4.10's. V6, Manual trans. I drive 4 mi to work but take a decent amount of road trips.
37's on 4.10's v6/MT is manageable around town, but not ideal. I will probably go to 4.88's at some point to get some of that power band back. For the record: 37" tires are about an 11% variance from the stock 33's. (Rounded numbers because I'm lazy).

Given that you're running 35's, 4.56 would be more ideal than 4.10's but you'd be better off than me. That said: Regearing is roughly $2k around here. I'd get some quotes from trusted shops, then maybe weigh that against the increased cost, any sort of upgrades vs. any sort of loss you might take on trade toward a new Jeep, Rubicon or otherwise.

For what it's worth: If I had to start completely over, I'd probably go Rubicon XR. Either Turbo 4 or 4xe. Or 392, if I could afford it.
 

Somefun

Well-Known Member
First Name
Doug
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
238
Reaction score
218
Location
Conntecicut
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep JL Rubicon
We have a 2021 Rubicon with a 2” with 35” Nitto trail grabbers. With the 4.10’s and a peddle commander it goes ok. But with the added weight of the wheels and thoughts of going to 37” for the next set I just got a set of Spicer 4.88’s. Can’t wait to get them installed. I think it will be a great addition. We just got back from a 1600 mile round trip to OBX and it was ok on the highway but not really seeing 8th a lot. They need more gear with heavy 35”s IMO.
 
OP
OP
Aquastream

Aquastream

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
239
Reaction score
473
Location
Fort McMurray, Alberta
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR, Hella Yella, 2.0 T
Yes and yes. I was stuck obsessing between 4.56 and 4.88's. I talked to several shops and after I described what kind of driving I do; Colorado high altitude trails, possibly some day an overlanding trailer, and the (remote) possibility of going to 37's down the road - and not wanting to re-gear twice - 4.88's were the overwhelming recommendation.

315's may be a stepping stone - but I am totally happy with them for now. I love how peppy and spirited the Jeep feels again with 4.88's and 315's. So much power it's crazy. Even in 4th and 5th gear. I see 6th gear on the highway and can actually accelerate. I'm not a fast driver, topping out no more than 70-75mph in the rare times I'm cruising interstate, so the need to go 'faster' just isn't there. I want power for how I drive - and 4.88's/315's give me plenty.

By comparison - stock 3.45's felt like the Jeep was really struggling to get going, especially on hills, especially at altitude. 4th was the max in most cases, sometimes 5th, never 6th. I hadn't planned to re-gear when I lifted and went to 315's but it was awful - it felt like I was asking him to do something he barely could and I kept waiting for something to break. It was intolerable. I only drove it like that for about 2 months before it was obvious I needed to re-gear.

I can eagerly recommend 4.88's, but of course it depends how you'll drive yours. I'm a convert for sure. Hope that helps.
Do your rpm’s get too high when you go faster on the freeway than you normally do? or is it still comfortable
 

BenderRodriguez

Active Member
First Name
Bender
Joined
Oct 11, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
37
Reaction score
76
Location
Boerne, TX
Vehicle(s)
22 JL392, 22 Yukon Denali, 18 F250, 17 Dutch Star
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Software Dev
Jeep Wrangler JL Are 4.10s sufficient? 0BEC07B4-D2B0-46E4-88F8-8B21E4FE2625

I created this spreadsheet for my 392 to help me understand the basics…. This doesn’t take into account the rotational energy required by larger tires, but the difference is minor.
 

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
297
Messages
5,276
Reaction score
7,158
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
This right here is the biggest factor in my opinion why some recommend gears that are too deep for my use. I live 3 miles off of I-5 where EVERYONE is cruising at 80mph+. The jeep sees 85mph almost every time I drive it, and on a road trip to Moab or Telluride it will be required to sustain that speed for 14+ hours. Our roadtrip to Alabama last may with 5.38's and 38's solidified my opinion that our Jeep was better off without deep gears. Even the 4.56's in the XR have me wanting to go to 37's soon to get the freeway rpms where I want them. If you never drive above 70mph, there's no penalty for going LOW. If you set your cruise control at 85mph to keep up with the semis out in AZ, UT, NV, etc you may very well regret going too low.
Out of sheer morbid curiosity, how many RPMs are you turning at 80 and 85? In both 7th and 8th?
 

Sponsored

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,320
Reaction score
7,689
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
Out of sheer morbid curiosity, how many RPMs are you turning at 80 and 85?
2300ish at 80 and just under 2500 at 85 if I recall correctly. That's with 35's and 4.56. If I went with 4.88's like some suggest for 35's I'd be pushing ~2700 at normal freeway cruising speed for me. That's just too damn high for me to want to run for hours, especially under low load conditions like the ~20 mile downhill stretch coming home from Las vegas/UT/CO just east of baker. Hard pass.
 

jbcrane

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
882
Reaction score
1,817
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
'21.JLU.6MT.GCM.35.4.88.ZEON12
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Technical/Indstrial 3D Animator
Vehicle Showcase
1
Do your rpm’s get too high when you go faster on the freeway than you normally do? or is it still comfortable
RPM's in 6th are comfortable. Engine is happy, good acceleration. This isn't a scenario I find myself in the Jeep too often; flat-cruising freeway @ 75-80mph. But when I need to do it, it's perfectly fine.
 

Maverick909

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Threads
35
Messages
4,028
Reaction score
5,640
Location
Inland Empire
Website
www.instagram.com
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sporticon, 1976 GMC K15 Lifted on 35's
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Electrician/ Industrial Furnace MFG
Clubs
 
Ill try to make it straight and quick

I have a willy’s with 35s and the gearing is very bad, it’s not a pleasure to drive anymore

Thinking of trading it in the spring, are the 4.10s really that much better?

i live at about 800ft
If you’re trading your Jeep in get the 4.88 gear set for 35’s on the 6 speed and 4.56 on the auto. That’s the recommend gearing from Jeep. I’m planning 4.88 on my Jeep with the current 35’s and the possibility of jumping to 37’s on the next set of tires.
 
Last edited:

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
297
Messages
5,276
Reaction score
7,158
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
2300ish at 80 and just under 2500 at 85 if I recall correctly. That's with 35's and 4.56. If I went with 4.88's like some suggest for 35's I'd be pushing ~2700 at normal freeway cruising speed for me. That's just too damn high for me to want to run for hours, especially under low load conditions like the ~20 mile downhill stretch coming home from Las vegas/UT/CO just east of baker. Hard pass.
At 85, which is not "normal highway speed" in most states except WY and MT, I am turning between 2700 and 2750.

Not even 50% of the RPM range, so not an issue for me, but I don't run 85 MPH everywhere I go either. 75 is plenty fast enough (but nothing is stopping me from driving 85 either) and I drove from NC to CO non-stop without it being tiring in the slightest.

You have a different use case where you want to drive at high speed like a car and you seem to be as RPM sensitive as I am to mundane performance so, I get it.
 

Zandcwhite

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
4,320
Reaction score
7,689
Location
Patterson, ca
Vehicle(s)
2019 jlur
At 85, which is not "normal highway speed" in most states except WY and MT, I am turning between 2700 and 2750.

Not even 50% of the RPM range, so not an issue for me, but I don't run 85 MPH everywhere I go either. 75 is plenty fast enough (but nothing is stopping me from driving 85 either) and I drove from NC to CO non-stop without it being tiring in the slightest.

You have a different use case where you want to drive at high speed like a car and you seem to be as RPM sensitive as I am to mundane performance so, I get it.
I'm not sure about where you come from, but 5-10 mph over the posted speed limit is normal freeway speed everywhere I've ever lived? So much so that a highway patrol sitting on the side of the road with the radar gun out the window won't budge if you're that close to the limit. Posted speed limits all over the west...75-80. You'll literally have semis pulling triples passing you in AZ if you're under 80mph. Even if you're trying to save fuel you can just draft one of them and still roll 80. On the east coast where you don't have straights that are dozens of miles long and you'd travel through 6 states before I can get out of CA in the same distance 80 might be rare. Here it is bellow average unless you are in the bay area, LA, or Sacramento. As far as mundane performance, the 5.38's made the jeep a half second slower 0-60 than it was with 4.10s, and that was still 7.5s which is hardly mundane for a 5k+lb vehicle on 38x13.50's if you ask me, but it's more mundane than the 7s flat it would do with 4.10s. I'd call cruising on the wide open freeway at 70 while everyone and their mom flies by mundane, but to each his own.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 



Top