Advice needed for 2 dr Willys

[jptrades]

Hey everyone. Currently my '23 2 door Willys is more or less stock, except for JKS quick disconnects, Fuel Oxide +1 offset wheels, and 285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT3's. Off-road it is a blast and has surprised me with it's capability. On-road I find it drives just fine.

My use case for the vehicle is as a daily driver, plus some off-roading a handful of times per year on easy to moderate trails including fairly long 2 1/2 foot water crossings, forest roads, and for general cottaging/hunting. I won't be going larger than 33's, I'm happy with their performance for my needs.

At the moment, I'm looking to add the Mopar front and rear steel bumpers, and a Warn Evo winch w synthetic rope. Having the right recovery gear is important to me so I can help myself and others.

I've done as much reading on various forums as I can, and I believe I should anticipate the additional weight of the bumper and winch will cause some sag (people seem to report as little as none to as much as 1.5", with the average experience seeming to be about 0.75".)

If I use a leveling kit or spacers to fix this problem, will I compromise ride quality? What's the trade off?

As an alternative, I am interested in a mild lift. Seems 2" is the minimum option for a proper suspension lift. I've found the Old Man Emu 2" kit. How would I account for the sag I create from the steel bumper/winch if I went this route? Is it possible for this lift to also act as a solution to level things out? Lastly, would my quick disconnects still work with this setup - JKS says they are good for 0-2" lift?

My head is swimming since I'm so new to all of this, and while I am working with a reputable shop, I'd still like to be an informed consumer, understand what I'm buying and why, and be aware of all my options. Really appreciate any guidance you folks can share, the Jeep community has been awesome so far!

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[JT1]

I would skip the steel rear bumper. More likely to dent your tub than help with anything.

Spacers are the easy button to lift exactly as high as advertised. Most 2" lifts will net more on a 2 door non-Rubicon than advertised. If you are happy with the ride now, put a puck lift on it and put new shocks on that are capable of managing the new length.

 

[jptrades]

I would skip the steel rear bumper. More likely to dent your tub than help with anything.

Spacers are the easy button to lift exactly as high as advertised. Most 2" lifts will net more on a 2 door non-Rubicon than advertised. If you are happy with the ride now, put a puck lift on it and put new shocks on that are capable of managing the new length.

Appreciate your response! I do worry about a lift being too high and creating a goofy look on 33s, ruining fuel economy for little benefit given my needs, etc. Would a puck lift and different shocks create any geometry problems with caster etc I'd need to worry about, or is the lift so little I don't need to worry about it? I need an explanation fit for a complete moron, I don't even know if I'm asking questions that make sense at this point lol..

 

[JT1]

Appreciate your response! I do worry about a lift being too high and creating a goofy look on 33s, ruining fuel economy for little benefit given my needs, etc. Would a puck lift and different shocks create any geometry problems with caster etc I'd need to worry about, or is the lift so little I don't need to worry about it? I need an explanation fit for a complete moron, I don't even know if I'm asking questions that make sense at this point lol..

Honestly, If I was staying at 33's, I'd buy 3/4" or 1" rear pucks, and 1.5" fronts. A set of quality mid tier shocks (Fox 2.0s or Bilsteins) for that lift height, a pair of front mopar lower control arms for the extra caster and a quality front trackbar (clayton, metalcloak, terraflex, RK, or any of a half dozen others)

You shouldn't have any issues where you will need relo brackets or anything. After you finish that stage, drive and enjoy.

I had a JK similarly equipped and wheeled it all over. Drove great on and off road and still got decent fuel economy.

 

[jptrades]

Honestly, If I was staying at 33's, I'd buy 3/4" or 1" rear pucks, and 1.5" fronts. A set of quality mid tier shocks (Fox 2.0s or Bilsteins) for that lift height, a pair of front mopar lower control arms for the extra caster and a quality front trackbar (clayton, metalcloak, terraflex, RK, or any of a half dozen others)

You shouldn't have any issues where you will need relo brackets or anything. After you finish that stage, drive and enjoy.

I had a JK similarly equipped and wheeled it all over. Drove great on and off road and still got decent fuel economy.

Thank you, all makes sense to me. Any personal opinion on shocks: Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Sport vs Fox Performance Series vs Bilstein?

 

[JT1]

Thank you, all makes sense to me. Any personal opinion on shocks: Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Sport vs Fox Performance Series vs Bilstein?

The only OME shocks I've ever used were on an LJ that I sold in 2010, so nothing modern to compare to.
The fox 2.0s are pretty soft and generally ride pretty well, much more comfortable offroad than the 5100s.
The bilstein 5100s are a little firmer on road and slightly more "sporty" but I don't like them offroad. They fade quick when you are working them hard. They are cheaper than the fox 2.0s though.

 

[GATORB8]

The OME Nitros are Twin Tubes, and looks like they’re really expensive ones at $150 a corner. Arguably a downgrade from the Rubi monotubes you already have with the Willy’s.

If don’t really want any lift, just measure the drop from the bumper/winch install, and throw in spacers to offset. It’ll put you right back where you are now with suspension performance.

 

[Hucke_250]

If you are happy with the current height/clearance/ride of the Jeep I also suggest spacers. But I wouldn’t order them until you install the bumpers and winch.

Prior to installing the bumpers and winch take measurements at all 4 corners at the areas indicated below and again after the install. If you only install spacers tall enough to bring you back up to stock height you should’t have any changes to geometry.

The only thing you may want to consider are new shocks to better handle the added weight.

 

[jptrades]

If you are happy with the current height/clearance/ride of the Jeep I also suggest spacers. But I wouldn’t order them until you install the bumpers and winch.

Prior to installing the bumpers and winch take measurements at all 4 corners at the areas indicated below and again after the install. If you only install spacers tall enough to bring you back up to stock height you should’t have any changes to geometry.

The only thing you may want to consider are new shocks to better handle the added weight.

Makes perfect sense to me, this seems like the most logical path after everyone's advice. Now to dive into the rabbit hole of reading up on shock options. Looks like there is a fairly wide consensus that Fox offers a good solution for fair money, I haven't found much negativity about their "Performance Series" option.

Thanks everyone for your recommendations, feeling a little better about what to ask for and why I'm asking for it.

Cheers

 

[GATORB8]

Makes perfect sense to me, this seems like the most logical path after everyone's advice. Now to dive into the rabbit hole of reading up on shock options. Looks like there is a fairly wide consensus that Fox offers a good solution for fair money, I haven't found much negativity about their "Performance Series" option.

Thanks everyone for your recommendations, feeling a little better about what to ask for and why I'm asking for it.

Cheers

To clarify, as you are returning to stock height, there is no "need" to replace your shocks unless they are failing. Shock replacement can be accomplished completely independently of the spacer install, and can be done with the Jeep sitting on it's tires.

 

[jptrades]

To clarify, as you are returning to stock height, there is no "need" to replace your shocks unless they are failing. Shock replacement can be accomplished completely independently of the spacer install, and can be done with the Jeep sitting on it's tires.

Previous comment suggested this might be advisable due to the increased weight, but I figure the addition of the bumpers and winch wouldn't add more than wheeling with a passenger, so might be OK on stock setup? I normally use this vehicle alone, no backseat, no passenger.

That said, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more on a shock upgrade regardless, in all my hobbies I find that learning about and picking cool "gear" is one of the most fun aspects!

 

[GATORB8]

Previous comment suggested this might be advisable due to the increased weight, but I figure the addition of the bumpers and winch wouldn't add more than wheeling with a passenger, so might be OK on stock setup? I normally use this vehicle alone, no backseat, no passenger.

That said, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more on a shock upgrade regardless, in all my hobbies I find that learning about and picking cool "gear" is one of the most fun aspects!

I agree the weight is negligible, and there may be some ride quality improvement to be had (I wouldn't expect jaw dropping improvement, but the right shocks will be noticible). Also, replacing the shocks with the right set will allow you to increase downtravel on your setup.

@AnnDee4444 has been kind enough to do a ton of research and dump it all into an awesome spreadsheet for us, here: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...gs-suspension-information-chart-matrix.66591/

I recommend measuring your current shock eye to eye length so you can custom tune it exactly. I expect you'll be slightly under the Rubicon height, and you can tailor the spreadsheet by adjusting the "lift height" so that the eye to eye heights match your measurements:

I'd be really tempted to recommend the 2-3" Bilstein 5160s. They are just barely out of spec for your front stock bump, ride awesome, and would make your rig a flex monster at stock height. Looks like the set would be $80 more than the Fox 2.0 IFPs on Northridge right now.

BS 5100 0-1.5 = $396
Fox 2.0 0-1.5 = $720
BS 5160 2-3 = $800

The 5160s are remote reservoirs, so they move the second piston out of the tube, allowing a shorter compressed length.

To accomplish that amount of downtravel, you may need to do the parking brake line flip in the rear, and maybe bend up the brake line brackets up front. Both are super easy to do. Also would need to double check that there is enough free length in the Willys springs + spacer to keep the springs in place at full droop. There may be limitation with getting full droop with the stock rear sway bar links, as they may hit the shock that far down.

 

[c20040215]

You are just doing some imagination now.
Measure the current stand at all 4 corner. Go get the bumpers and winch you want, and measure the sag, if any. And Then decide how much you want to lift. You may or may not like the stand after the added weight.

If you just want a mild lift to compensate the weight, the spacers would get you exact lift you want.

 

[jptrades]

I agree the weight is negligible, and there may be some ride quality improvement to be had (I wouldn't expect jaw dropping improvement, but the right shocks will be noticible). Also, replacing the shocks with the right set will allow you to increase downtravel on your setup.

@AnnDee4444 has been kind enough to do a ton of research and dump it all into an awesome spreadsheet for us, here: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...gs-suspension-information-chart-matrix.66591/

I recommend measuring your current shock eye to eye length so you can custom tune it exactly. I expect you'll be slightly under the Rubicon height, and you can tailor the spreadsheet by adjusting the "lift height" so that the eye to eye heights match your measurements:

I'd be really tempted to recommend the 2-3" Bilstein 5160s. They are just barely out of spec for your front stock bump, ride awesome, and would make your rig a flex monster at stock height. Looks like the set would be $80 more than the Fox 2.0 IFPs on Northridge right now.

BS 5100 0-1.5 = $396
Fox 2.0 0-1.5 = $720
BS 5160 2-3 = $800

The 5160s are remote reservoirs, so they move the second piston out of the tube, allowing a shorter compressed length.

To accomplish that amount of downtravel, you may need to do the parking brake line flip in the rear, and maybe bend up the brake line brackets up front. Both are super easy to do. Also would need to double check that there is enough free length in the Willys springs + spacer to keep the springs in place at full droop. There may be limitation with getting full droop with the stock rear sway bar links, as they may hit the shock that far down.

Thank you for the super detailed response, I will have to read it carefully when I'm home from the office and properly digest it all.

I am very thankful for this community and everyone's time and insight. This is the kind of stuff I can't imagine a shop taking the time to explain and share.

 

[AdamG]

Previous comment suggested this might be advisable due to the increased weight, but I figure the addition of the bumpers and winch wouldn't add more than wheeling with a passenger, so might be OK on stock setup? I normally use this vehicle alone, no backseat, no passenger.

That said, I wouldn't mind spending a bit more on a shock upgrade regardless, in all my hobbies I find that learning about and picking cool "gear" is one of the most fun aspects!

Passenger weight is not the same as bumper/winch weight due to where the weight sits. Figure out how much the bumper+winch will weigh more than stock, and sit that amount on your bumper (like with sand bags). Do a pre and post measurement and you’ll know the droop before you get the stuff in.

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