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ramp4ge
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- Feb 11, 2019
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- Twentynine Palms CA
- Vehicle(s)
- 2010 JK Sport
You stole it then, becuase the MSRP on a 4-door base JL w/hardtop is $40,000...
nerubi
Well-Known Member
Did you get tax rebates for installing solar? If so the rest of us paid for your payback. And rates in many parts of the country aren't as high as in SoCal so paybacks are longer. I designed several alt energy systems when I was an engineer and back then the only payback was using building design features - roof overhangs, mass walls to absorb solar heat and release it. But slowly the technology improved but it is only feasible now with government and utility incentives. I worked for a big farm and construction equipment company that had a finance division that build a lot of wind farms across the country. The only payback for them was the government tax breaks. They set it up so that the farmers that owned got the wind turbines after 10 years when the tax breaks stopped and the expected life of the equipment would require major costs.We put solar on our house just over two years ago. With current electricity rates we will reach break even point (we bought our system) in about 2.5 years. We also added a panel more than we needed to "futureproof" our system in case we buy an EV.
I agree with your statement in general. For our household, in just a few years from now our electricity will be effectively free, and a hybrid or PEV Jeep would save us tons of money per year. I would still hesitate on buying new tech from FCA, especially since the newest recall on the Ram truck indicates they can't even attach steering wheels or brake pedals without having issues...
As a side note, my neighbor is a Nissan salesman and has an all electric Leaf. He plugs it in at work so he doesn't pay for the fuel cost but this weekend he went on a trip. Sunday night a tow truck brought it home because the cold weather and lack of charging locations out in the country made it into a real brick.
AmesosaurusRex
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- Justin
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In much the same way as we are currently subsidizing the oil and gas industry causing those prices to be artificially low? And that is just based on tax subsidies, not including the fact that their externalize a lot of their costs in the form of pollution and climate change (not to say that solar doesn't also have some costs that are mostly being externalized to China at this time).
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nerubi
Well-Known Member
Sorry Mr. Gore. I didn't think you drove a Jeep. Ethanol is subsidized to keep farmers in business and I think they should be self-supporting but they do that with the dairy industry and steel industry and on and on. But that keeps industry solvent against external challenges such as other government dumping. Not trying to bribe individuals into artificially try to create an industry. And oil companies externalize their costs in the form of pollution and climate change? Does that mean the government pays them extra to add pollution to the environment?
Please do all of us a favor and go back to your Prius. If the New Green Deal ever becomes law the New government won't let you have that either.
AmesosaurusRex
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- Justin
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- JLUR Punk'n Metallic
I didn't even talk about Ethanol and you are the one that brought up tax payer subsidies.
digitalbliss
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- May 26, 2017
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- 2018 JLUR, 1979 CJ7
Yes, I paid 7+% below invoice. There is a thread listing plenty of dealers that are willing to deal. If you're paying MSRP, you're doing it wrong.
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AmesosaurusRex
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Justin
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- JLUR Punk'n Metallic
Yea, I paid a 3.5% below invoice (and my doc fees where about half what they would have been at a cheaper dealer) and that was only because I wanted to keep my purchase local (which has paid off with my service needs so far). It was so easy to pick up a 6% below when I was buying and I think you can even get a 8% now if I am not mistaken...and you don't have to deal, you just email them what you want...
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guarnibl
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- '09 JK, '26 Willys
It's weird to me that they would actually get someone to pay $5k over for a Rav 4 base model. Wrong demographics for ADMs.
guarnibl
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If you find the right '18 you can get 10% under now (I think that's ~17-18% under MSRP). But for 2019 the lowest I've seen is 8% off.
I stayed local and got 6% off. Fair deal and gave a good dealer the business. Been in KZ S for ~5 days now... hopefully not much longer. It got put on a train Saturday morning (VLS had the first scan). Paid ~$52k on a $60k MSRP.
For those waiting for plug in hybrid, it will be probably be a 10-15 mile range at first. Good though for short commutes. Won't apply to any other use case at all. I'd still buy it though -- it would be nice to have gas-free commutes to work 5 days a week and then still have the gas range off road.
I'm also in the camp re: solar not being worth it. I'll install it when I can go off grid with a 5 year ROI. Until then, I'll stay without solar and not risk having to move and losing part of my investment to accelerated depreciation from the sale. I have one of the best solar scores possible in PHX and it's still a 18-20+ year ROI and that is staying on grid... off grid and it's more like 50 years. For the poster that said 2.5 years -- sure -- I (and probably anyone) would do that in a heart beat. Part of the reason it's so bad for my home is that it's just not all that energy efficient, and I'd spend nearly as much in improving that as the solar install. I could move and buy new construction with guaranteed efficiency ratings but well, then I'd be spending $100 more per SF than today.
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nerubi
Well-Known Member
Just more examples of my work paying for other's desires. One reason I retired years early so I don't have to pay taxes to support others.
Majestic
Well-Known Member
For comparison purposes, we’re comparing MSRP to MSRP from JK to JL, otherwise the comparisons get messy fast trying to reason with every imaginable deal that somebody cooked up (maybe they got a good price but screwed on trade, financing, etc). Most people aren’t flying around the country buying from regional volume dealers so that’s not really an impact from a FCA global sales standpoint.
That being said, back in 2012, I remember there was only one volume dealer on the Jeep forums back then and he was offering at most 3% below invoice with the affiliate code. Jeep’s were averaging around $30K or so so that was only about $300 off which was hardly the cost of a plane ticket. Now it seems like there’s a lot more built in margin for them to work with.
I’ve also noticed the average Jeep buyer has changed. When I ordered a 2013 in 2012, I remember it was revealed the 2013’s would come with an auto dimming mirror and led lights in the cup holders. There was some backlash that the Jeep was “getting too cushy”, like being rough and uncomfortable was some sort of badge of honor (this is a vehicle where steel doors used to be an option). Now Jeep’s offering a lot of cushy options and people are happily paying for them. Leather for example used to be rare, now every dealership had all their Rubicons with leather. It’s not the Jeep’s price that has really increased but the array of options. I’m willing to bet the market for bare bones stripped Jeep’s are almost non existent.
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