Which engine to order with Rubicon (canceling a 4xe order)

[Whaler27]

Hey all,

I've read through a lot of these threads but I'm interested in getting some fresh thoughts on this question. I have been waiting for a 4xe for months and reading the endless issues and shutdowns, I'm going to restart the ordering process (woe is me!). In doing so, here are my engine considerations.

1 - It will be a rubicon. I will take it off road but really not a ton. Live in PA and likely will see more trails than actual rock climbs.
2 - I will have the tow package but won't tow much if ever.
3 - Will have standard wheels and no lift.
4 - Will have a mix of commute miles (20 miles/day at 30-45 mph) and longer 4-6 hour trips once every couple months.

What I want: Mostly reliability. But also some nod to fuel efficiency and fun.

Really tossed up between the three engines: V6, 4-turbo, and ecodiesel. I'd pull the trigger on the diesel but I feel like its reliability is somewhat a concern and it is loud (is it?). Love to hear more about it. V6 is the most reliable but its MPGs blow and it's kind of the middle child--good at a bunch, great at nothing. 4-turbo gets good mpg and a nice jump from the gun but I hesitate with the meager 4-banger. Is it really any fun? Anyways welcome the thoughts.

At least I can get the Sarge Green if I go through with this.

I’d get the 4-banger. Very good fuel economy for a Jeep and very good power. The only downside I’m aware of is the absence of compression braking on long declines. That’s probably irrelevant given your intended use and, if your use changes to include long descents in the mountains, you can always compensate by upgrading to Alcon brakes.

The diesel is awesome, and it is not loud at all. It’s also very heavy, and it sounds like you don’t particularly need or want anything it excels at.

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[GearWhore]

I do recommend the diesel, however...

At 3-4 months & 6000 miles my 2021 developed the common oil leak. It was at the dealer for about 2 months waiting on parts.

I'm now at 20k miles without other issue. A lot of those off-road miles. With 37s & mountain driving I still average above 24 mpg.

DEF consumption is higher than I expected or experienced with the diesel (2nd gen) in my Grand Cherokee. Ends up around the 3% consumption that seems to be industry standard. I refill about every 3k from pumps at truck stops. Price is cheaper & DEF is fresh.

First 4 oil changes we're included with the Jeep Wave program, so I won't have an expense there until 50k. I de-water the fuel filter every 10k myself & will replace every 15-20k. Filters are cheap & accessible.

Other maintenance is pretty much the same as gas engines.

One other benefit of the diesel is heavier duty suspension & steering components.

 

[ads75]

Run the numbers on wether the diesel is worth it to you, financially, how many miles you drive a year, how much a gallon of diesel costs, costs per mile, and the cost to upgrade to the diesel, and consider maintenance costs as will. How long will it take for the diesel to pa for itself? The torque and range for some people can't be substituted, but if you are asking, you probably don't care too much. After that, consider 3.6L regular gas vs 2.0 premium gas (recommended). Most people in the mountains seem to prefer the turbo, in Philly and the surrounding areas, probably not an issue.

I went with the 3.6 for my 2019, no regrets, but the 2.0 turbo was relatively new at the time, the 3.6 was more proven. As of right now, it doesn't seem like the 2.0 has many problems either. Two doors don't have all the drive train options four doors have.

 

[Past the Pavement]

For what it's worth my dealer has seen a lot of 4xe come back for trade with unhappy owners.

It's personal preference if you like turbo engines or not. I've had plenty of both and went with the V6 eTorque. Very happy.

Yup! I absolutely hate my 4xe and am selling it this week haha. There are some aspects that are insanely good but overall, no way. It can behave inconsistently especially when trying to blend power between the electric/engine, and just so many little weird things I can't stand. If your battery is super low sometimes the ESS stuff is really bad. I've had some specific experiences that make me feel it's honestly not a safe vehicle. Probably won't explain well but:

1. If battery is < 1%, sometimes there's a long lag before ESS starts the engine and in the meantime it feels like some kind of limp mode. You'll go 50-70 feet before the engine starts.
2. Once when merging onto a freeway and had it in Electric preference mode, it just lagged. Would NOT turn on the engine even if I floored the pedal. Until it finally did and then lurched forward. Made me feel and look like an idiot I'm sure.
3. Another time getting on freeway in Electric preference mode, it did start the engine pretty quick when I demanded the extra, for one gear. Then as soon it shifted it turned the engine off (no change in my demand/pedal position). This caused it to suddenly slow down BIG TIME. The person behind me honked and I don't blame them.

I live in Utah and took it on plenty of trails last summer. Crawling around in silence is insanely cool and something else. But again, it's just not extremely predictable, which is really not great when you're trying to navigate rocks/roots, etc... I ended up putting it in e-Save mode unless it was just a simple fire road because at least then it was fairly consistent in how it behaved. lol I even had once where it literally just refused to... go... I had started a hill accent and about halfway up I slowed to a stop when approaching some rocks. Well, after that it wouldn't move. It wouldn't turn the engine on, go, or even just SEEM like it was trying to go, just sat there staring at the "READY" indicator thinking "You don't SEEM ready." I ended up putting it in reverse and going back down the hill. Once I got to the bottom it worked fine again.

Just not at all the experience I want from my Jeep. I feel like pure EV could be interesting and probably will work out so much better than PHEV. Passing on the 4xe is 100% the right call.

I'm leaning towards 3.6 + XR but I crawl high altitude and so the 2.0 is tempting as well. I think with the gearing on the XR (as others have linked threads) probably will make the 3.6 pretty nice, and after experiencing the 4xe I'm really REALLY turned off and just want something that works well and is (Jeep ) reliable.

 

[Murphydog]

Yup! I absolutely hate my 4xe and am selling it this week haha. There are some aspects that are insanely good but overall, no way. It can behave inconsistently especially when trying to blend power between the electric/engine, and just so many little weird things I can't stand. If your battery is super low sometimes the ESS stuff is really bad. I've had some specific experiences that make me feel it's honestly not a safe vehicle. Probably won't explain well but:

1. If battery is < 1%, sometimes there's a long lag before ESS starts the engine and in the meantime it feels like some kind of limp mode. You'll go 50-70 feet before the engine starts.
2. Once when merging onto a freeway and had it in Electric preference mode, it just lagged. Would NOT turn on the engine even if I floored the pedal. Until it finally did and then lurched forward. Made me feel and look like an idiot I'm sure.
3. Another time getting on freeway in Electric preference mode, it did start the engine pretty quick when I demanded the extra, for one gear. Then as soon it shifted it turned the engine off (no change in my demand/pedal position). This caused it to suddenly slow down BIG TIME. The person behind me honked and I don't blame them.

I live in Utah and took it on plenty of trails last summer. Crawling around in silence is insanely cool and something else. But again, it's just not extremely predictable, which is really not great when you're trying to navigate rocks/roots, etc... I ended up putting it in e-Save mode unless it was just a simple fire road because at least then it was fairly consistent in how it behaved. lol I even had once where it literally just refused to... go... I had started a hill accent and about halfway up I slowed to a stop when approaching some rocks. Well, after that it wouldn't move. It wouldn't turn the engine on, go, or even just SEEM like it was trying to go, just sat there staring at the "READY" indicator thinking "You don't SEEM ready." I ended up putting it in reverse and going back down the hill. Once I got to the bottom it worked fine again.

Just not at all the experience I want from my Jeep. I feel like pure EV could be interesting and probably will work out so much better than PHEV. Passing on the 4xe is 100% the right call.

I'm leaning towards 3.6 + XR but I crawl high altitude and so the 2.0 is tempting as well. I think with the gearing on the XR (as others have linked threads) probably will make the 3.6 pretty nice, and after experiencing the 4xe I'm really REALLY turned off and just want something that works well and is (Jeep ) reliable.

I think both gassers are good. I have the 3.6 eTorque and am very pleased overall (The XR package appeared about a month after I ordered)and as I am sure you have read many love the 2.0 as well.

 

[lowmpg]

That is too bad, 4xE is one of the only things I'd change on my Rubicon as I think that setup is really interesting, but yeah doesn't seem perfected yet.

Personally I debated the 4 vs 6 (didn't want the diesel as I see zero point with no tow rating increase and just having additional maintenance to do). In the end I picked the 3.6 do to how long it has been in operation and the very simple oil change, since I do that myself

Both motors are fine for the vehicle as it isn't a race car so debating torque curve and HP is silly IMHO -- the vehicle isn't breaking 100 with either setup and it will be slow regardless if you're use to driving anything not shaped like a brick. And since you don't plan to really add the mods that kill mpgs, you'll be fine either way so you can't go wrong with either motor. Enjoy.

 

[john adams]

The best thing about this thread: No one has regrets!

Leaning diesel but none to test drive. I've always wanted a diesel just because I'm an engineering geek. But engine self repair has long since left me in the dust.

 

[High-Strung]

I ordered the 3.0 Ecodiesel. My commute is a solid half a mile away, I know the diesel will not warm up by the time I get to work nor will I see savings in cost for MPG. However, I purchased the 3.0 diesel for the driving experience since I do like to take country-side drives every weekend and leave out of town about once a month.

 

[Equitasforall]

So I'll be the outlier here, but so far my 4xe has been fantastic. Just over 1800 miles, so I know it's not even broken in yet, but to this point it's not broken yet either. Transitions from ICE to electric and back have been seamless, so much so that I've been caught off guard that the ICE was running. No stutter, stall, or lag on takeoff. No sluggishness or powerless on highway mountain crossings (part of my daily commute.) The 2.0T moves the 4xe weight effortlessly, even with my big ass in the seat. I've been more than impressed by the performance of the electric as well, getting around 21 miles per charge (average) with the only thing seeming to limit the range are the winter headwinds here. I've had it on full electric for my errands around town, hybrid (standard setting) for most of my commute, done a combination of forest service roads and power line trails with one BOH (Peters Mill in VA) and it's more than exceeded expectations.

Now, all this being said, it's liable to fail on the way home, but so far the only knock I had was the lengthy recharge time on the Level 1 Charger. I took advantage of the tax break and installed a level 2 last week.

My last Rubicon had the V6 and 8 speed. It was flawless for the 44,000 miles I put on it, even being an early '18 JL. It was a 2 door so the power to weight made the thing extraordinarily responsive and highly nimble. Current 2.0T in the 4xe with the auto is also impressive and when put in 4H Auto, all the power and torque is maximized.

So far so good....

 

[Caveman044]

The eco deseil seems to have some common problems, plus i think def is ridiculous. You'll also never recover the cost of the engine in fuel savings. $250 oil changes, very minor increase in payload and towing, and have fun paying for repairs when warranty drops.

Reports on the 4 banger seem good so far, but a turbo in a wrangler seemed out of place to me. And I know they say you don't have to run premium, but you know you will.

I ordered the 3.6 etorque, proven 3.6 and the etorque system fixes the stupid motorcycle battery in the standard ess version.

I think stepping away from the 4xe is smart. Why get a plug in a vehicle that's designed to get away from plugs? And 20 mile range on electric only, hilarious.

 

[lowmpg]

The eco deseil seems to have some common problems, plus i think def is ridiculous. You'll also never recover the cost of the engine in fuel savings. $250 oil changes, very minor increase in payload and towing, and have fun paying for repairs when warranty drops.

Reports on the 4 banger seem good so far, but a turbo in a wrangler seemed out of place to me. And I know they say you don't have to run premium, but you know you will.

I ordered the 3.6 etorque, proven 3.6 and the etorque system fixes the stupid motorcycle battery in the standard ess version.

I think stepping away from the 4xe is smart. Why get a plug in a vehicle that's designed to get away from plugs? And 20 mile range on electric only, hilarious.

For what it is worth, there is no increase in towing by getting a diesel. Exact same rating between gas/diesel in a JL. Same 3500lbs, and unless you get specific models there is no payload benefit.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...r-weight-tow-capacity-max-payload-specs.1440/

 

[TX_Ovrlnd]

For what it is worth, there is no increase in towing by getting a diesel. Exact same rating between gas/diesel in a JL. Same 3500lbs, and unless you get specific models there is no payload benefit.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...r-weight-tow-capacity-max-payload-specs.1440/

American Wrangler payload ratings are set more by the frame and suspension, but the diesel will absolutely pull a load better than the gassers will (it's not a 2500 though). It is night and day different. Anyone claiming otherwise has probably never driven a diesel and is going on what their youtuber and bookface group told them.

OP do not take diesel advice from anyone who has never owned or operated a diesel for just a test drive. It's unfortunate that the 4xe is giving some grief, I had high hopes for that model. You'd enjoy the 2.0 or 3.0 I think, the 3.0 comes with some extra maintenance but it's not as bad as what everyone makes it out to be unless you're counting pennies. Do what makes sense for your budget.

 

[lowmpg]

American Wrangler payload ratings are set more by the frame and suspension, but the diesel will absolutely pull a load better than the gassers will (it's not a 2500 though). It is night and day different. Anyone claiming otherwise has probably never driven a diesel and is going on what their youtuber and bookface group told them.

OP do not take diesel advice from anyone who has never owned or operated a diesel for just a test drive. It's unfortunate that the 4xe is giving some grief, I had high hopes for that model. You'd enjoy the 2.0 or 3.0 I think, the 3.0 comes with some extra maintenance but it's not as bad as what everyone makes it out to be unless you're counting pennies. Do what makes sense for your budget.

Hmm so a decade of owning diesels I'll say, I don't care what the motor could do if it was on another frame . Can't imagine anyone purchasing a Wrangler for 'towing'.

 

[TX_Ovrlnd]

Hmm so a decade of owning diesels I'll say, I don't care what the motor could do if it was on another frame . Can't imagine anyone purchasing a Wrangler for 'towing'.

I did not say it's a towing choice, just that it will tow better than a gasser, if you've owned them for a decade you would know that too . I am purchasing it because I prefer diesels over gassers, but that's a preference formed from 3 decades ?‍. Here's hoping I don't suffer issues some have posted about here, but usually more reasons to post about issues versus no issues on forums...same as google reviews.

 

[HungryHound]

Any rumors on liters for the I6? I'll probably be all over that!

3.0 twin turbo

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