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Capt. Don

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In Puerto Rico here, one of our real "Jeepero" groups are the Migue Off-road Club. As there is a great deal of rain in our tropical rainforests and forests, mud is a way of life. I consider myself a Class B Jeepero here as I would wait for about 4 days after a good rain, when the ground has firmed up a bit, and then go jeeping. For my 35s and a mild lift on my 2022 JKUXR, and being an ex - Colorado rock crawler, I like slow and steady. Works fine for damp but fairly firm ground. Not for mud. I still like to watch these guys whom I consider the real Class A Jeeperos here. In this video of theirs at the 8:00 to 10:00 minutes point you can see Jeeps working hard and impressively. A few observations from this "old dog trying to learn some new tricks." I am interested to hear your observations.
  1. This is a great example of the benefits of 40s over 37s and 37s over 35s. As the ruts get deeper the sidewall height becomes more critical. Chassis height is key also, but sidewall height is a key contributor in mud in this video, in my opinion.
  2. Insufficient lift leaves you pushing more and more mud with your chassis.
  3. I've complained a bit about my BFG All-Terrain K02s loading up with mud and not clearing. Here is a broad range of mud terrain oriented tires. I note that none of them clear themselves in these conditions. I am toning down my criticism of the K02s which seem to keep me moving even mudded up. If I was following these guys, yes, I would have to have mud terrain rated tires. Right now, I am choosing to wait a few days for firmer ground (Class B Jeepero for sure).
  4. Trying to learn a few things from watching others, it seems to me that as the Jeeps slow in the mud and stop, that more steering wheel side to side under power would help to get the Jeep moving again. This is a technique that this club does not seem to use much. I do that in sand and mud. Don't you?
  5. I don't like seeing engines bouncing off rev-limiters. Makes me cringe to hear it. To me that implies that their overall crawl ratio is numerically too high (over 74:1) for the speeds that they are trying to maintain. Or is it that they just need to shift up one gear? Or both? No sympathy for their equipment here. Yeh, it's a tough life for muddin' Jeeps in the tropics.
  6. Lockers front and rear appear to me to be a key requirement. Anything less does not work in these conditions. If you slow and dig yourself in, as the JK at 10:40 in the video (and stuck for 30 minutes), it is hard to crawl out without winch use. What was his biggest mistake, not carrying enough speed in the bog? Not quite enough lift?
It is fun to watch these guys. My hat is off to them. Note that they did not bend any metal. And though they came doggone close, they did not run over any spectators. Any other lessons that you observed and care to share?
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Anonymous

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Some of those Jeeps sounded so badass. Thanks for sharing!!
 

jhackathorne

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I learned that I would do that in someone else's Jeep, but never mine. Mudding is fun, but not worth the cleanup afterwards unless someone else is doing it. And I agree on the rev limiter observations.
 
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Capt. Don

Capt. Don

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Off Road Extremo “Las Cadenas PR” - YouTube





In Puerto Rico here, one of our real "Jeepero" groups are the Migue Off-road Club. As there is a great deal of rain in our tropical rainforests and forests, mud is a way of life. I consider myself a Class B Jeepero here as I would wait for about 4 days after a good rain, when the ground has firmed up a bit, and then go jeeping. For my 35s and a mild lift on my 2022 JKUXR, and being an ex - Colorado rock crawler, I like slow and steady. Works fine for damp but fairly firm ground. Not for mud. I still like to watch these guys whom I consider the real Class A Jeeperos here. In this video of theirs at the 8:00 to 10:00 minutes point you can see Jeeps working hard and impressively. A few observations from this "old dog trying to learn some new tricks." I am interested to hear your observations.
  1. This is a great example of the benefits of 40s over 37s and 37s over 35s. As the ruts get deeper the sidewall height becomes more critical. Chassis height is key also, but sidewall height is a key contributor in mud in this video, in my opinion.
  2. Insufficient lift leaves you pushing more and more mud with your chassis.
  3. I've complained a bit about my BFG All-Terrain K02s loading up with mud and not clearing. Here is a broad range of mud terrain oriented tires. I note that none of them clear themselves in these conditions. I am toning down my criticism of the K02s which seem to keep me moving even mudded up. If I was following these guys, yes, I would have to have mud terrain rated tires. Right now, I am choosing to wait a few days for firmer ground (Class B Jeepero for sure).
  4. Trying to learn a few things from watching others, it seems to me that as the Jeeps slow in the mud and stop, that more steering wheel side to side under power would help to get the Jeep moving again. This is a technique that this club does not seem to use much. I do that in sand and mud. Don't you?
  5. I don't like seeing engines bouncing off rev-limiters. Makes me cringe to hear it. To me that implies that their overall crawl ratio is numerically too high (over 74:1) for the speeds that they are trying to maintain. Or is it that they just need to shift up one gear? Or both? No sympathy for their equipment here. Yeh, it's a tough life for muddin' Jeeps in the tropics.
  6. Lockers front and rear appear to me to be a key requirement. Anything less does not work in these conditions. If you slow and dig yourself in, as the JK at 10:40 in the video (and stuck for 30 minutes), it is hard to crawl out without winch use. What was his biggest mistake, not carrying enough speed in the bog? Not quite enough lift?
It is fun to watch these guys. My hat is off to them. Note that they did not bend any metal. And though they came doggone close, they did not run over any spectators. Any other lessons that you observed and care to share?
Forum Administrator: My apologies but this thread should have been posted on the Off-road Techniques Forum. Can you help me move it over?
 

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Wabujitsu

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Cool video, Don!

Here in FL we also have tropical conditions and all types of mud and sugar sand. What we don’t have much of is rolling uphill through sticky mud (but there are a few of-road parks that do).

I think your analysis is spot-on. The bigger the tire and the more aggressive the tread is, the more efficient you will be. Also, momentum and the PROPER amount of wheel spin is necessary to continue moving forward without digging yourself in. Also, wheel spin helps clear the tread blocks.

Torque is also very important, as the mud grabs your vehicle - torque starting in the low end of the RPM.

Lockers are a must too. I also agree that seesawing the steering wheel back and forth can be quite helpful.

I have wheeled uphill through sticky, wet clay with some experienced off-roaders that were on 37s when I was on 33s. The two gents in front of me tried about eleven times to crest the hill and failed. I went up on my first try, because I threw my Jeep at it like I didn’t care if I broke it. Choosing the right amount of aggressiveness without breaking your Jeep is a tightrope walk. I’m running a 2.0T JLUR. I now have a lift and 35s.
 

multicam

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I f’ing hate mud, this video is my nightmare. Looks like they had fun tho!

Last time I put my jeep in mud it gave my alternator a whine that I still haven’t fixed. Never, ever, EVER again will my jeep go near mud.
 

GATORB8

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Like other categories, I think planning the build around the environment will give you some advantage here. I avoid mud where possible now, but did a good amount when I was younger in FL.

For example, in rock crawling you want to balance tire size and uptravel. In the case of mud, uptravel will actually reduce frame/body clearance. As such, you can add bump (to a point, for on road comfort), sacrifice flex, and maximize tire diameter. Also, as COG matters less, lift her to the sky for tire size.

My KO2s suck (even in the Carolinas) for mud compared to my experience with KMs. I actually see a lot of tread clearing in the video. I'd say considering going beyond a standard MT and moving into specialty mud tires may be a good option (think Interco).
 

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The only type of off-roading I've ever known involves mud, so I have the opposite problem: no desire to slowly crawl up huge slippery boulders. First trip to Moab last month was an eye-opener, that's for sure.

But all the previous comments about muddin' are spot-on: Always have momentum. If you stop, you're most likely now stuck. In deep ruts, run that wheel side to side to use the sidewalls. Wheel speed helps to clear the treads. And yes, sometimes you just need to hit an obstacle with waaay more speed than you're comfortable with.
 

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Fun video. Thanks for sharing! Reminds me of the Camel Trophy videos that inspired me for decades.

I'd say keep your KO2 opinion. They just don't clear mud or snow very well at all. My least favorite AT tire out there. With any tire, keeping the revs up to keep the tread clearing is important in mud.

I grew up on mud, and now am in the rocks. My biggest fear in mud is sliding backwards out of control. My second biggest fear is not knowing whats under when it gets deep (and then breaking shit). Bigger tires allow cleaner runs through deeper ruts and less care in regards to what's under.

Working the front wheels side to side is a known traction tip. Gives your sidewalls something to bite against and hopefully add the friction needed to move the vehicle.

#6: This is what happens when your wheelin buddies all have larger tires and bigger lift than you. Especially if you're the last one through the ruts/mud. Looks like a lot of contact between the frame/axles and the ground, preventing full vehicle pressure on the tires.
 

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Awesome video, and that looks like it was a lot of fun. I hate driving in mud though, honestly! Makes such a mess of everything, and if you ever have to get out and winch you almost always have to step down into 2 feet of mud. No thanks. You guys can rightfully call me a sissy if you'd like :LOL:

Was that an XJ that was out there (@ 15:46)? Looked absolutely badass, like a freakin monster truck.
 

five9dak

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I paid for the whole tachometer, I'm going to use the whole tachometer.

My performance cars see redline every time they are driven. When I had a tuner car I would bounce it off the limiter for fun, in neutral and while spinning. It'll (probably) be fine.
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