Muddin' in the Tropics - Lessons Learned

[Deleted member 59498]

That will take a while to wash out! :D

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[Capt. Don]

Cool video, Don!

Here in FL we also have tropical conditions and all types of mud and sugar sand. What we don’t have much of is rolling uphill through sticky mud (but there are a few of-road parks that do).

I think your analysis is spot-on. The bigger the tire and the more aggressive the tread is, the more efficient you will be. Also, momentum and the PROPER amount of wheel spin is necessary to continue moving forward without digging yourself in. Also, wheel spin helps clear the tread blocks.

Torque is also very important, as the mud grabs your vehicle - torque starting in the low end of the RPM.

Lockers are a must too. I also agree that seesawing the steering wheel back and forth can be quite helpful.

I have wheeled uphill through sticky, wet clay with some experienced off-roaders that were on 37s when I was on 33s. The two gents in front of me tried about eleven times to crest the hill and failed. I went up on my first try, because I threw my Jeep at it like I didn’t care if I broke it. Choosing the right amount of aggressiveness without breaking your Jeep is a tightrope walk. I’m running a 2.0T JLUR. I now have a lift and 35s.

SFC Jeff: Sounds like you are having fun in Florida. You are saying that speed trumps tire size. That's interesting, but a hard thing for this old rock crawler. Speed also equals bent metal in my experience. That is a delicate choice with tropical hardwoods just inches away from your fenders. I guess that is the challenge. Good comments. Thanks.

 

[Capt. Don]

With a manual transmission you've got to pick your gear at the start and hope it's enough. That would likely explain them hitting the rev limiter.

With a modern automatic I would have tapped it back for one more gear. I watch my son in his AEV JKUR and he will shift his manual as he approaches an obstacle. But, yes, he stays with the gear when he is in it. I had not thought of this but seems to me that the quick shift on an 8-speed automatic in 4-Low has an advantage over the slower shifting manual. Am I missing something here?

 

[Capt. Don]

That will take a while to wash out! :D

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these Jeeps scooping up a 100 lbs. of thick mud. But it is impressive what they are accomplishing.

 

[Capt. Don]

I paid for the whole tachometer, I'm going to use the whole tachometer.

My performance cars see redline every time they are driven. When I had a tuner car I would bounce it off the limiter for fun, in neutral and while spinning. It'll (probably) be fine.

HaHa! I liked your word, "probably."

 

[Wabujitsu]

SFC Jeff: Sounds like you are having fun in Florida. You are saying that speed trumps tire size. That's interesting, but a hard thing for this old rock crawler. Speed also equals bent metal in my experience. That is a delicate choice with tropical hardwoods just inches away from your fenders. I guess that is the challenge. Good comments. Thanks.

CPT, sir, thank you for your response. I am not saying that speed trumps tire size. I am saying that you have to have the best equipment, skills, and aggressiveness to overcome environmental and/or vehicle shortcomings. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, sir.

The gents I was rolling with on that one hill had better equipment than I. They were also being very conservative in their attempts, and failing. I took a very aggressive run at the hill, FAR more aggressive than the other two guys - enough aggressiveness to overcome the terrain and my vehicle shortcomings, compared to their Jeeps. I sometimes have the FIDO mentality, and I’m at times very aggressive when attacking a Florida obstacle. I’m very competitive. ? @Roky will verify that. On that particular obstacle, my cell phone flew out of the holder, and I cracked my skull on the pillar. I even subluxated my shoulder on another obstacle. I’m glad my wife wasn’t there ?

After they failed repeatedly, and saw me make it the first time, they each took another run at it and made it to the top, because they became more aggressive.

I’m too much of a hard head and an idiot at times…but I’ve never broken anything on my Jeep. It’s tougher than I.

 

[carmigo]

Off Road Extremo “Las Cadenas PR” - YouTube





In Puerto Rico here, one of our real "Jeepero" groups are the Migue Off-road Club. As there is a great deal of rain in our tropical rainforests and forests, mud is a way of life. I consider myself a Class B Jeepero here as I would wait for about 4 days after a good rain, when the ground has firmed up a bit, and then go jeeping. For my 35s and a mild lift on my 2022 JKUXR, and being an ex - Colorado rock crawler, I like slow and steady. Works fine for damp but fairly firm ground. Not for mud. I still like to watch these guys whom I consider the real Class A Jeeperos here. In this video of theirs at the 8:00 to 10:00 minutes point you can see Jeeps working hard and impressively. A few observations from this "old dog trying to learn some new tricks." I am interested to hear your observations.

1. This is a great example of the benefits of 40s over 37s and 37s over 35s. As the ruts get deeper the sidewall height becomes more critical. Chassis height is key also, but sidewall height is a key contributor in mud in this video, in my opinion.
2. Insufficient lift leaves you pushing more and more mud with your chassis.
3. I've complained a bit about my BFG All-Terrain K02s loading up with mud and not clearing. Here is a broad range of mud terrain oriented tires. I note that none of them clear themselves in these conditions. I am toning down my criticism of the K02s which seem to keep me moving even mudded up. If I was following these guys, yes, I would have to have mud terrain rated tires. Right now, I am choosing to wait a few days for firmer ground (Class B Jeepero for sure).
4. Trying to learn a few things from watching others, it seems to me that as the Jeeps slow in the mud and stop, that more steering wheel side to side under power would help to get the Jeep moving again. This is a technique that this club does not seem to use much. I do that in sand and mud. Don't you?
5. I don't like seeing engines bouncing off rev-limiters. Makes me cringe to hear it. To me that implies that their overall crawl ratio is numerically too high (over 74:1) for the speeds that they are trying to maintain. Or is it that they just need to shift up one gear? Or both? No sympathy for their equipment here. Yeh, it's a tough life for muddin' Jeeps in the tropics.
6. Lockers front and rear appear to me to be a key requirement. Anything less does not work in these conditions. If you slow and dig yourself in, as the JK at 10:40 in the video (and stuck for 30 minutes), it is hard to crawl out without winch use. What was his biggest mistake, not carrying enough speed in the bog? Not quite enough lift?

It is fun to watch these guys. My hat is off to them. Note that they did not bend any metal. And though they came doggone close, they did not run over any spectators. Any other lessons that you observed and care to share?

This is awesome. Never had the privilege to go mudding but this has me thinking about planning a trip soon. That location looks so cool though, thanks for sharing!

 

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of the Camel Toe Trophy videos that inspired me for decades.

Say whaaaa????

 

[Capt. Don]

Awesome video, and that looks like it was a lot of fun. I hate driving in mud though, honestly! Makes such a mess of everything, and if you ever have to get out and winch you almost always have to step down into 2 feet of mud. No thanks. You guys can rightfully call me a sissy if you'd like

Was that an XJ that was out there (@ 15:46)? Looked absolutely badass, like a freakin monster truck.

Mostly Jeeps but, yes, there was a mix of trucks. So many of the Jeeps on the island have small fortunes spent on upgrades; stereos and huge speakers, mismatched lift and tire/wheel combos, bling lighting, a bunch of custom parts with no real reason to them, all making a real cream puff of a beach bar parking lot queen. Those guys are having fun and I try not to knock it. They spend big money on these rigs and keep many shops here busy. But this small group of Jeeperos really are using what they build and are laser focused on their off-road skills. I like that. I do not like mud as much as they do, though. But really fun to watch.

 

[Capt. Don]

CPT, sir, thank you for your response. I am not saying that speed trumps tire size. I am saying that you have to have the best equipment, skills, and aggressiveness to overcome environmental and/or vehicle shortcomings. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, sir.

The gents I was rolling with on that one hill had better equipment than I. They were also being very conservative in their attempts, and failing. I took a very aggressive run at the hill, FAR more aggressive than the other two guys - enough aggressiveness to overcome the terrain and my vehicle shortcomings, compared to their Jeeps. I sometimes have the FIDO mentality, and I’m at times very aggressive when attacking a Florida obstacle. I’m very competitive. ? @Roky will verify that. On that particular obstacle, my cell phone flew out of the holder, and I cracked my skull on the pillar. I even subluxated my shoulder on another obstacle. I’m glad my wife wasn’t there ?

After they failed repeatedly, and saw me make it the first time, they each took another run at it and made it to the top, because they became more aggressive.

I’m too much of a hard head and an idiot at times…but I’ve never broken anything on my Jeep. It’s tougher than I.

Now, that sounds like a real Jeep adventure!

 

[Wabujitsu]

Now, that sounds like a real Jeep adventure!

CPT, this is the place I was writing about, the Ocala Hard Rock Off Road park. It I had to guess, I would say it was formerly an old phosphate mine. Here’s a couple of videos, many more available on YouTube. When it’s wet, it’s the stickiest and snottiest clay possible.

 

[Spartan99]

Awesome vid!!!!!!

 

[donmontalvo]

My parents are from Lajas (mom) and Cabo Rojo (dad). Both passed away years ago. My dad had a s**tbox Jeep and he loved it. Totally stock. If he were alive today he would permanently borrow my Jeep. I don't mind getting the Jeep muddy and scraped up, that's what Jeeps are for. But I hate going through deep mud. Getting unstuck is off-putting to me. But great video. Coqui!

 

[Ratbert]

I paid for the whole tachometer, I'm going to use the whole tachometer.

My performance cars see redline every time they are driven. When I had a tuner car I would bounce it off the limiter for fun, in neutral and while spinning. It'll (probably) be fine.

That's what I loved about my RS-5: 8,250 rpm redline. Sounded like a Ferrari when you spun that naturally aspirated V8 up like that. Such a rush.

 

[Ratbert]

With a modern automatic I would have tapped it back for one more gear. I watch my son in his AEV JKUR and he will shift his manual as he approaches an obstacle. But, yes, he stays with the gear when he is in it. I had not thought of this but seems to me that the quick shift on an 8-speed automatic in 4-Low has an advantage over the slower shifting manual. Am I missing something here?

Nope, not missing anything. If you shift a manual transmission in the middle of that you risk losing momentum.

With an automatic you need to enable off road+, disable traction control, and manually shift it. Having it shift to the next gear too soon is also bad.

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