You Get What You Pay For..

[Headbarcode]

Every time I read the thread title...a quote pops in my head:

"Men may not get all they pay for in this world, but they must certainly pay for all they get."-Frederick Douglass (huge fan here).

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[JCscott]

Take this video with a grain of salt, folks as it is from my second home and birth country (India). For a few bucks, corporate India will sell their father if they have to. Mercedes is scared of Jeep in India as the Wrangler has pummeled them in off road Luxury SUV sales for their G Wagen due to price. Before the Wrangler, only G Wagen dominated the high end SUV market in India and it was common to see them in the very rich neighborhoods of Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, etc. Jeep enters the fray in 2016 with a Wrangler and the rich went ape shit about it due to the (relatively) much lower cost and the iconic reputation Wranglers have had in India. Ever since 2016, the Rich preferred Wranglers while the Upper Middle Class like me preferred Mahindra Thar (Wrangler’s cheaper but much less capable and reliable cousin).

Wont be surprised if MB in India paid off our safety agency in Delhi to make the Wrangler look bad from a safety perspective. The G Wagen is by all means a safer vehicle than the Wrangler but that doesn’t mean that the Wrangler does not belong on the streets.

By no means am I criticising India. It is my second home and the place that gave birth to me. But I know how corrupt and dishonest we are!

We appreciate the knowledge! It’s cool to see the American Wrangler is building that bond in India. I really hope the US - India alliance continues to grow more and more. All the Indians I’ve met in the NW have been some good folks. I’d love to Overland that beautiful land some day in the near future!

 

[Punjabi New Yorker]

We appreciate the knowledge! It’s cool to see the American Wrangler is building that bond in India. I really hope the US - India alliance continues to grow more and more. All the Indians I’ve met in the NW have been some good folks. I’d love to Overland that beautiful land some day in the near future!

For overlanding make sure to carry some mace with you too while you are at it because crime rates have skyrocketed recently esp in the rural areas where people overland using Mahindras and the Suzuki Gypsies

 

[Shots]

Will our Jeeps automatically stop for people or just other cars?

It will stop for a pedestrian if the sensor picks them up. Unfortunately pedestrians are frequently "dashing" across the roadway and even though the system my apply braking there may not be enough time to stop.
Short answer though is yes it will try to stop for people.

.... So yea, i'm the one who said I don't care about what happens outside of my vehicle, and I absolutely meant it.

And you're absolutely free to feel that way. Maybe I'm a bit of a tree hugger, but I feel all life is precious so I care. I'm not implying you don't feel life is precious. In fact you even give a good narrative on enjoying every moment of how precious it is.
I'm simply saying that even though I may not mourn the pedestrian, or feel guilt if their actions lead to their death, I would feel bad for their family's loss. Therefore, I care what happens to the pedestrian.
You may not, and that's fine for you. I think that complete disconnect is likely what rubbed some of the respondents the wrong way. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your opinion, but obviously it's not the popular one. It seems no different than the debate between the use of Narcan on an overdose patient. Some are for it, some are not.

..... people should be be free to feel and think and speak what they please without being attacked for it.....

Agreed, but it goes both ways. You are free to feel and say that you don't care what happens outside your car. Likewise, others are free to feel and say that they do. They're not bullying you if they don't agree with your perspective. You freely gave your opinion, and they freely gave theirs. You'd be bullied if your account was blocked, or your post removed.
Just because someone doesn't agree with an opinion doesn't mean they're attacking it. It just means they don't agree. We're all free to have different opinions.

That is what America used to be about, but for some reason we've gotten to where people think that if someone disagrees with them they're being attacked, bullied, or disrespected. I blame everyone getting participation trophies, but who knows how we really got there.

 

[Shots]

Well all of you "what if" scenarios for the crowd on the sidewalk are moot. It's a great philosophical question, but the emergency systems in all automated, and semi-automated vehicles will NOT swerve to avoid a collision. The people on the sidewalk are irrelevant, regardless of how many there are, or their age/gender/status/ect.
Newer safety systems will provide lane assist to keep a vehicle within a traffic lane, but under no circumstances will it ever swerve to avoid a collision. The most they will do is apply emergency braking in an attempt to stop. This is partly because swerving takes the vehicle to an unknown path and may result in more harm. The other issue is, that unexpected abrupt maneuvers frequently result in loss of lateral stability causing the vehicle to enter a yaw and/or overturn. This typically results in much more damage/injury than straight line braking. For those two reasons the "robot" will not do anything but brake as you hit the semi head on.

you are very very wrong on this one.

Since this IS on the topic of the thread, maybe we can get back to it.

What do you feel is "very very wrong" about that? Do you think future cars will be programmed to swerve, do you not think that swerving frequently results in more damage, or is there something different?

 

[msdesignltd]

*******BRAKING NEWS ******
Antifa supporters advocate the use of all auto braking systems so that when they attack drivers in cars , the cars can not mow them down.

 

[Shots]

*******BRAKING NEWS ******
Antifa supporters advocate the use of all auto braking systems so that when they attack drivers in cars , the cars can not mow them down.

 

[entropy]

And how does that solve the dilemma I wrote above? Asimov's laws do not consider such things unfortunately. They do not consider the choice of which human is more valuable.

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

 

[nostatic]

you're not from California...

The one problem with the individual moral compass is that they are individual and don't always align. In theory, lots of things work great - democracy, communism, etc. In practice they fail (for different reasons) because humans are involved.

The autonomy conundrum is one we'll be grappling with for some time to come as algorithms increasingly make decisions for us. Autonomous cars are an obvious example, but AI moving into healthcare and then insurance will result in a lot of challenges. Algorithms, like humans, are biased. With humans you can usually figure out the bias. With an algorithm, particularly one that has "learned", you really don't know the bias. And good luck arguing with the algorithm when your insurance is denied.

Ethical dilemmas have been around for a long time. The trolley problem is a classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem). No universal right answer, and it illustrates the underlying big problem for society - everyone has a different perspective, yet we need to agree to some set of principles. We used to have a lot more agreement, but lately there has been a "hollowing of the center" as more people move to extreme positions. Traditionally what has brought the country together is some cataclysmic event - great depression, WW2, 9/11. For a bunch of reasons, we seem unable to rise to the occasion now, maybe because there are two many things or we're just too distrustful or we spend too much time worrying about the Kardashians instead of our neighborhood.

Meh - I need more coffee.

 

[Gee-pah]

I guarantee you if I ever hit a pedestrian it’s because they flat out committed suicide and caused an unavoidable collision. I will always place a higher emphasis on paying attention to the road and driving defensively 100% of the time over any safety features. The driver is the biggest safety feature on a car and always will be.

..and I applaud you....but it's barring, for example, road or vehicular conditions (like disrepair you weren't nor could reasonably be aware of) that effect your ability to control situations via your driving skill, highly competent though I assume it to be....

 

[Gee-pah]

That said, the biggest thing I saw in the crash test videos that was substantially better for the Mercedes, was the side impact. Notice the JL doesn't have side curtains for the rear occupants.

Notice the rear passenger's head struck the C-pillar during the side impact. This could obviously be fatal and is a major concern. Otherwise, as far as vehicle occupants are concerned, I don't see a huge difference between the two vehicles. I'd need to look closer at the videos, and the dummies, but overall it doesn't look to bad.

Okay, end nerd post.

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this

 

[entropy]

Some people just happen to forget humans are prone to making mistakes. And no, not only because of making poor decisions, but because it is in our nature. We are wired to make mistakes, human error is 100% unavoidable and we try to mitigate it as much as we can.

I assure you all of you. The feeling of being in complete control is an absolute illusion. We make mistakes on a daily basis and a lot of times we arent even aware of them. Nobody can guarantee that they will never hit a pedestrian, that is arrogant, unrealistic, and honestly short minded.

Machines dont make mistakes we do. When a machine makes a mistake the underlying cause is a human error. Even when talking about A.I.

But the reality is. the facts are. When we program machines to do what we want, or when we properly train and test a machine learning algorithm to do what we need, we vastly reduce human error. Statistically, a machine will always do better and that is the reason why we rely so much on them. Self driving cars will eventually be much better drivers than all of us here.

Robots dont mess up. we do. At least robots are consistent.

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