Why Does A Full-Float Axle Matter So Much?

[KCSgtMaj]

Except for the rating plate.

What rating plate?

The GCVWR is not mentioned in the rating plate inside the door pillar. At 4602 lbs curb weight, plus 1400 lbs payload, plus 5000 lbs towing capacity the GCVWR should be somewhere around 11,002 lbs. there is no mention of GCVWR anywhere on the vehicle. It makes it a liability issue for the driver if towing more than a vehicle is rated for and you happen to have a mishap. I can’t find any documentation for the Wrangler GCVWR. The data plate on my vehicle gives me front and rear max axle weights and that is all. Which roughly adds up to just over 9,000 lbs.

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[SCJeeps]

Floating vs Semi Floating is not the whole picture. Consider that the Gladiator uses the same Semi-Floating axles and can be configured to tow 7000lbs. Suddenly adding a full float axle to the wrangler adds almost 50% more capacity?!? While it is true that a full floating axle decouples torque from radial load carrying that is not the only factors. The “system” as a whole or the entire Jeep is evaluated for the tow rating. There is a lot of engineering work that goes into these to ensure they are reliable for the consumer.

 

[Zandcwhite]

The GCVWR is not mentioned in the rating plate inside the door pillar. At 4602 lbs curb weight, plus 1400 lbs payload, plus 5000 lbs towing capacity the GCVWR should be somewhere around 11,002 lbs. there is no mention of GCVWR anywhere on the vehicle. It makes it a liability issue for the driver if towing more than a vehicle is rated for and you happen to have a mishap. I can’t find any documentation for the Wrangler GCVWR. The data plate on my vehicle gives me front and rear max axle weights and that is all. Which roughly adds up to just over 9,000 lbs.

A window sticker, build sheet, etc with a tow rating of 5klbs stated by the manufacturer eliminates liability concerns of towing at or below that rating, although if your "mishap" is your fault regardless. People worry about some of the weirdest things, liability for towing within the rated capacity because the wrangler doesn't have a GCWR stated? I guess you can't tie anything then?

 

[Ratbert]

He was replying to an owner of a 2024 that is rated to tow 5klbs despite coming with a class 2 hitch? What other limiting factor could there be?

Every single limiting factor that didn't get upgraded between 2023 and 2024. And no, I don't have a list of them (hundreds maybe?).

 

[azwjowner]

Floating vs Semi Floating is not the whole picture. Consider that the Gladiator uses the same Semi-Floating axles and can be configured to tow 7000lbs. Suddenly adding a full float axle to the wrangler adds almost 50% more capacity?!? While it is true that a full floating axle decouples torque from radial load carrying that is not the only factors. The “system” as a whole or the entire Jeep is evaluated for the tow rating. There is a lot of engineering work that goes into these to ensure they are reliable for the consumer.

I thought somewhere Jeep said that it was a question of rigidity and the full float axle reduced side to side movement just enough to pass the SAE tests at the higher weight. The Gladiator's longer wheelbase may have never faced the same issue.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Every single limiting factor that didn't get upgraded between 2023 and 2024. And no, I don't have a list of them (hundreds maybe?).

Or none as JLUs have been towing 5500lbs around the world safely for 6 years now...

 

[Ratbert]

A window sticker, build sheet, etc with a tow rating of 5klbs stated by the manufacturer eliminates liability concerns of towing at or below that rating, although if your "mishap" is your fault regardless. People worry about some of the weirdest things, liability for towing within the rated capacity because the wrangler doesn't have a GCWR stated? I guess you can't tie anything then?

Please show us a JLU window sticker or build sheet with a tow rating of 5k pounds. I haven't seen one, but my build sheet / window sticker extraction system is no longer working.

 

[KCSgtMaj]

A window sticker, build sheet, etc with a tow rating of 5klbs stated by the manufacturer eliminates liability concerns of towing at or below that rating, although if your "mishap" is your fault regardless. People worry about some of the weirdest things, liability for towing within the rated capacity because the wrangler doesn't have a GCWR stated? I guess you can't tie anything then?

I’m not worried, because I’m not going to tow 5K lbs. All of those weight numbers have meaning, (engineered) meanings. You as the driver won’t be able to go back on the vehicle manufacturer and “you said the Vehicle could tow 5K lbs.”. Most built Wranglers are over GVWR, throw a trailer in the mix and now way over weight.
it’s a common problem for a big percentage that tow trailers. I find it interesting that a vehicle mfg will boast a 5K lbs towing capacity and not mention the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Floating vs Semi Floating is not the whole picture. Consider that the Gladiator uses the same Semi-Floating axles and can be configured to tow 7000lbs. Suddenly adding a full float axle to the wrangler adds almost 50% more capacity?!? While it is true that a full floating axle decouples torque from radial load carrying that is not the only factors. The “system” as a whole or the entire Jeep is evaluated for the tow rating. There is a lot of engineering work that goes into these to ensure they are reliable for the consumer.

Completely agree. If the limiting factor is suspension, brakes, power, etc... than going from a semi-floating to full-floating axle won't make a difference. You can make a semi-float style axle with a higher weight rating than a full-float style axle on paper, it's just that normally the full-float style is a heavier duty axle overall and the design makes is "easier" to get a higher weight/load rating.

I thought somewhere Jeep said that it was a question of rigidity and the full float axle reduced side to side movement just enough to pass the SAE tests at the higher weight. The Gladiator's longer wheelbase may have never faced the same issue.

That's a new one to me. Maybe can understand where that comment is coming from if they are using a c-clip shaft retention on the semi-float axle. This would allows very, very slight in and out motion of the tire compared to the axle housing. However I just can't imagine it would make a big enough difference to be a factor....or a big enough difference where some tuning of the suspension couldn't have done the same thing (and been cheaper/easier than having a whole different axle assembly).

 

[troverman]

The full-float axle for the 2024 Wranglers is pretty puzzling to me because of the Gladiator. A full-float axle design is undoubtedly better at carrying weight (relative to an identical c-clip axle) and also safer in the event of braking an axle half-shaft. So if Jeep introduced this new "full float" axle on the Wrangler and said "there, now it tows 5,000lbs." I could agree and say the rear axle was the limiting factor. But the Gladiator uses the JL Wrangler Rubicon axles which are semi-float, yet that vehicle can be rated to tow up to a whopping 7,700lbs in max tow configuration. So what gives, since clearly the semi-float rear axle does NOT seem to be the limiting factor. Now obviously the Gladiator has considerably larger rear brakes than a Wrangler, and a different rear suspension design, and even the frame is different back there. But if all that changed on the 2024 JLU was the full-float axle, I don't see how that was necessary.

 

[Ratbert]

The full-float axle for the 2024 Wranglers is pretty puzzling to me because of the Gladiator. A full-float axle design is undoubtedly better at carrying weight (relative to an identical c-clip axle) and also safer in the event of braking an axle half-shaft. So if Jeep introduced this new "full float" axle on the Wrangler and said "there, now it tows 5,000lbs." I could agree and say the rear axle was the limiting factor. But the Gladiator uses the JL Wrangler Rubicon axles which are semi-float, yet that vehicle can be rated to tow up to a whopping 7,700lbs in max tow configuration. So what gives, since clearly the semi-float rear axle does NOT seem to be the limiting factor. Now obviously the Gladiator has considerably larger rear brakes than a Wrangler, and a different rear suspension design, and even the frame is different back there. But if all that changed on the 2024 JLU was the full-float axle, I don't see how that was necessary.

And the Gladiator had higher towing capacities from day one, that is, before full floats were available in the lineup.

 

[grimmjeeper]

The full-float axle for the 2024 Wranglers is pretty puzzling to me because of the Gladiator. A full-float axle design is undoubtedly better at carrying weight (relative to an identical c-clip axle) and also safer in the event of braking an axle half-shaft. So if Jeep introduced this new "full float" axle on the Wrangler and said "there, now it tows 5,000lbs." I could agree and say the rear axle was the limiting factor. But the Gladiator uses the JL Wrangler Rubicon axles which are semi-float, yet that vehicle can be rated to tow up to a whopping 7,700lbs in max tow configuration. So what gives, since clearly the semi-float rear axle does NOT seem to be the limiting factor. Now obviously the Gladiator has considerably larger rear brakes than a Wrangler, and a different rear suspension design, and even the frame is different back there. But if all that changed on the 2024 JLU was the full-float axle, I don't see how that was necessary.

I suspect that the Gladiator rear axle already had thicker and/or bigger tubes to handle more weight than the Wrangler. But that is just a guess on my part.

 

[stumblinhorse]

2012 2500 Cummins had a semi-float on it, I know because I had to replace the rear seals. 2008 F350 XLT with the 6.4L and 6spd manual also did not have an external bearing.

Hmm, I own a 2001 2500 dodge with a full float d80 in the rear and a 2016 3500 SRW with a full float AAM 11.5 rear…. Not sure you might be confused on how it bolts to the hub…

 

[CarbonSteel]

What towing receiver class does the Gladiator have? I am assuming it has a Class III versus the Class II that is on the Wrangler.

 

[Ratbert]

What towing receiver class does the Gladiator have? I am assuming it has a Class III versus the Class II that is on the Wrangler.

This says that it's a Class IV: https://www.allmoparparts.com/sku/82215648.html

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