Twinkle Toes I'm Not

[[DELETED MEMBER 103062]]

Pretty much nailed it. I switched exhaust less than a month after ownership, and being able to hear it really helped my shifting. Didn't help feel. but helped me hear what the engine was doing and where the best shift points were. Mine really likes to be revved to about 4 grand before shifting. It's higher than I like to shift, but I had to train myself to shift at a higher rpm.

I have had the pleasure to drive and wheel both the manual and 8spd JL transmissions. I can say without a doubt that the 8spd is one of the best automatic transmissions I have ever driven. That said, I still prefer the manual, you can use whatever term us manual purists use, more engaging, more fun, more connected ... etc. Regardless of what terms are used, I simply just enjoy it more.

I replaced my clutch with an ACT JP6 around 16k miles. No mechanical issues with my old clutch, still worked as a clutch should I just did not care for it. I was immediately happier when I was test driving the ACT after I installed it. It took maybe five minutes to get used to, and it felt like a clutch is supposed to feel. By that I mean it had some "feel".

What drove me to replace was safety. I take my families on trips in that Jeep and drive around off road with my family in it, and I'm teaching my kids how to drive manuals in it. I didn't want anything to happen to them and the recall (which turned into just a replacement clutch and some bs software nannies) was going to take a long time to resolve. As a '21 mine isn't even supposed to be scheduled for the fix until August of this year, if I remember correctly. A full year+ after I got fed up with waiting on the recall resolution and put the ACT in.

Link to clutch I went with:
https://www.advancedclutch.com/jp6-hdss-hd-o-perf-street-sprung

Link to my build thread post with my immediate opinions after install:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...and-poor-money-management.114250/post-2459068

I did a fair amount of research before I pulled the trigger on ACT, but I truly feel that you can't really go wrong with any aftermarket single disc application for the JL.

Very helpful, thank you!!

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[NWJeepr]

Drive-by-wire and electronic throttles killed the joy of driving a manual trans, in my opinion. Too much electronic tuning makes throttle input too variable to nail perfect engagements, upshifts, and perfectly rev-matched downshifts. The JK had kind of a stupid throttle but at least it had a decent clutch and a decent manual trans.

The JL manual trans sucks. So does the clutch. Do yourself a favor and upgrade the clutch so you can actually enjoy your Jeep.

 

[Old Jeeper]

To be fair, they didn't change much at all with it.
They just used a super light race inspired clutch in it. Race clutches just aren't meant to move heavy bricks.

Dual clutches is the domain of the drag racing world. Dual Clutches AKA "Slipper" clutches.

WAY WAY back in Drag racing days, there a famous guy who was running in Double A fuel. He was climbing the race ladder ( he run against a rival and won and now would run against the next guy and if he won he would have taken the trophy). Turns out they had to rebuild his motor and by the time they got that done, he needed to go race. But he knew his clutch was starting to slip. So they adjusted it as much as they could to tighten it up.

Well, he comes off the line and the clutch is slipping but he is ahead of his rival and he sets a new record time for the quarter mile. This was the invention of the slipper clutch. Now they use a 2 clutch system to accomplish the slippage.

I cannot remember who it was, been too many years, It might have been Don Garlits, I knew, GREAT guy.

It's a proven system, Corvette has it and so does just about ever HiPerf vehicle.

The problem with the Jeep is if you are rock crawler, it does not work in the rocks as you cannot control the slip. Stick in rocks you constantly on the clutch, finessing the line...

 

[azjl#3]

Drive-by-wire and electronic throttles killed the joy of driving a manual trans, in my opinion. Too much electronic tuning makes throttle input too variable to nail perfect engagements, upshifts, and perfectly rev-matched downshifts. The JK had kind of a stupid throttle but at least it had a decent clutch and a decent manual trans.

The JL manual trans sucks. So does the clutch. Do yourself a favor and upgrade the clutch so you can actually enjoy your Jeep.

Meeeeh, not if done right.. BMW has an outstanding clutch and tranny behind its 3.5. So good in fact, it’s electronics help feather the throttle if it thinks you are going to stall it, and an auto restart if you do.

 

[NWJeepr]

Meeeeh, not if done right.. BMW has an outstanding clutch and tranny behind its 3.5. So good in fact, it’s electronics help feather the throttle if it thinks you are going to stall it, and an auto restart if you do.

Agreed, but it's not a totally organic experience. The TR6060 6-speed in my Camaro SS is a great manual transmission. It's got an electronic throttle and a nice stiff clutch. It also electronically rev-matches and does other things to compensate. Definitely a better setup than a JL, but still suffers from being modernized.

The best manual trans driving experiences, IMO, are those with a cable or physical throttle linkage to an analog fuel metering device (throttle body, carb). RWD only, stick that goes straight into the trans, no crappy linkages. Not that driving a modern manual can't be enjoyable, but some automakers do it better than others.

 

[[DELETED MEMBER 103062]]

Thanks to everyone for all the great feedback! Glad it's not just me.

 

[siggy]

Just wait until you're climbing significant rocks with it.

And just wait for the ass clowns to jump in, trying to pump up their own (apparently fragile) egos by claiming that you don't know how to drive a manual.

Just like the ass clowns who don’t realize their automatic downshifts?

 

[Nitehawk92]

Don't worry - it's not you

Driven stick all my life

My first 2-3 months with this JL clutch was challenging....including stalling. All I can say is that you'll get it.....it'll just take some time. Once muscle memory kicks in, you'll get it. Also - (at least with the V6), it likes to shift a little higher in the RPM range than my TJ did.

If you offroad, take advantage of the "Offroad + " button as the throttle response absolutely sucks (read impossible) in any mud/sand

Careful with the recall. Regardless of what's been written, it sounds like all it includes are new parts (not an updated design) and a reflash of the programming to detune the engine/performance when certain criteria are met.

I have 25K miles on mine and not a problem with it. I'm eligible for the recall, but I'm staying away and looking into an aftermarket clutch

I have driven sticks shift vehicles all my life. I did not have any issues going from my 5-speed manual 2001 TJ to my 2020 Sport and then 2023 Rubicon. I have no complaints at all about the functioning of the JL clutch. Some of the JLs have hill start assist and I think the default is for it to be turned on. I immediately turned it off on my 2023. Maybe that will help people who don't like the clutch...

 

[Ratbert]

Just like the ass clowns who don’t realize their automatic downshifts?

Yep. Or those that talk about how great the manual is. All that's required is swapping out major components!

 

[Heimkehr]

With all that said, I absoultely suck trying to drive that new whimsical 2 stage clutch that's in this JL It's frickin embrassing watching me try to get off the line, let alone be a passenger in the vehicle without a neck brace. WTF!

I really wanted a three pedal JLU, and had taken care to ensure that the first of several planned test drives began with a row-your-own Jeep.

Well, it also ended there.

I didn't know then what I know now about the wonkiness of the manual transmission in the JL-gen. Jeep, but I decided to follow my gut when configuring my factory order with the 850RE. The wisdom of my decision is validated every time I drive my Wrangler. Fair credit to ZF for hitting a grand slam with that particular 8-speed.

I'd still love to have a manual transmission Jeep, but the stars don't yet align. Not for me, anyway. I'm glad that other owners have made it work for them. ?

 

[Bayrat]

I've been driving manual transmissions most of my driving career (50+ years) and for last year I've been in a 2013 2 door JK Rubicon with a man pedal. I don't claim to be the best on the pedals, but I'm generally pretty smooth, even on the trails.

I recently picked up a 2022 2 door JL Rubicon with the six speed manual that has only 6,000 miles. The previous owner impressed me as conservative, as well as experienced, and I don't see any signs that the vehicle was abused, which includes the clutch and transmission but I can't say for sure.

With all that said, I absoultely suck trying to drive that new whimsical 2 stage clutch that's in this JL It's frickin embrassing watching me try to get off the line, let alone be a passenger in the vehicle without a neck brace. WTF!

I guess the good news is, I still have 3.5 years left of drivetrain warranty. However, the active recall on my clutch has no solution yet. Seriously? I'm tempted to put an after market clutch in and take my lumps if the tranny takes a dump but shouldn't have to given the price point on this vehicle.

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but I feel better now, and it's all about me. Thanks for reading my rant. P.S. I did just order a couple fire extinguisher mounts just in case.

This is exactly the reason I would never order another Wrangler stick. Having owned two JKs with them, I felt like a new driver learning to shift. It seems there is a delay in the fly by wire coordinating between the accelerator pedal and the engine. Oh, I was eventually able to make it function in an almost normal way, but it simply was not worth it to me to do it again. Good luck, I feel your pain.

 

[Jebiruph]

I've been driving manual transmissions most of my driving career (50+ years) and for last year I've been in a 2013 2 door JK Rubicon with a man pedal. I don't claim to be the best on the pedals, but I'm generally pretty smooth, even on the trails.

I recently picked up a 2022 2 door JL Rubicon with the six speed manual that has only 6,000 miles. The previous owner impressed me as conservative, as well as experienced, and I don't see any signs that the vehicle was abused, which includes the clutch and transmission but I can't say for sure.

With all that said, I absoultely suck trying to drive that new whimsical 2 stage clutch that's in this JL It's frickin embrassing watching me try to get off the line, let alone be a passenger in the vehicle without a neck brace. WTF!

I guess the good news is, I still have 3.5 years left of drivetrain warranty. However, the active recall on my clutch has no solution yet. Seriously? I'm tempted to put an after market clutch in and take my lumps if the tranny takes a dump but shouldn't have to given the price point on this vehicle.

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but I feel better now, and it's all about me. Thanks for reading my rant. P.S. I did just order a couple fire extinguisher mounts just in case.

Turning off hill start assist and recalibrating the throttle help with the clutch. I spent a few months with 2013 JK MT last year and really noticed the improved feel of both the clutch and steering of the JK compared to the JL.

 

[6th Floor Mule]

Maybe I’m an anomaly, but I have zero issues with my 6MT. Surely I’m not the only one out here. Anyone, anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

Prior to purchase, I researched the recalls and read all the hate and still drove out of state for a test drive. I drove it, drove it some more, and went back two weeks later and bought it. I’d prefer not to be considered an “asshat” for not having issues, but it is what it is. Even if I had issues, wouldn’t be on me for buying a vehicle with a known “faulty“ clutch? The 6MT issues have been around for 6 years now, so I don’t understand how someone could be suddenly surprised by the 6MT’s faults. How do you knowingly buy a “faulty“ product and then complain about the product being faulty?

 

[Ratbert]

Maybe I’m an anomaly, but I have zero issues with my 6MT. Surely I’m not the only one out here. Anyone, anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

Prior to purchase, I researched the recalls and read all the hate and still drove out of state for a test drive. I drove it, drove it some more, and went back two weeks later and bought it. I’d prefer not to be considered an “asshat” for not having issues, but it is what it is. Even if I had issues, wouldn’t be on me for buying a vehicle with a known “faulty“ clutch? The 6MT issues have been around for 6 years now, so I don’t understand how someone could be suddenly surprised by the 6MT’s faults. How do you buy a “faulty“ product and then complain about the product being faulty?

I sure as hell didn't know it was defective when I bought mine. That (1st?) recall came out subsequently. I was simply stupid enough to believe the things posted here about how great the manual is.

 

[autotragic]

I've been driving manual transmissions most of my driving career (50+ years) and for last year I've been in a 2013 2 door JK Rubicon with a man pedal. I don't claim to be the best on the pedals, but I'm generally pretty smooth, even on the trails.

I recently picked up a 2022 2 door JL Rubicon with the six speed manual that has only 6,000 miles. The previous owner impressed me as conservative, as well as experienced, and I don't see any signs that the vehicle was abused, which includes the clutch and transmission but I can't say for sure.

With all that said, I absoultely suck trying to drive that new whimsical 2 stage clutch that's in this JL It's frickin embrassing watching me try to get off the line, let alone be a passenger in the vehicle without a neck brace. WTF!

I guess the good news is, I still have 3.5 years left of drivetrain warranty. However, the active recall on my clutch has no solution yet. Seriously? I'm tempted to put an after market clutch in and take my lumps if the tranny takes a dump but shouldn't have to given the price point on this vehicle.

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but I feel better now, and it's all about me. Thanks for reading my rant. P.S. I did just order a couple fire extinguisher mounts just in case.

You need an ACT clutch spring. The JL's clutch feel is set entirely too soft from the factory and has too much assist which is what is making the pedal so light you can't tell WTF it's actually doing.

https://www.advancedclutch.com/871087p-compression-spring-for-jeep-jl-jt-pedal-assembly

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