Trade in Values tanking

[Ratbert]

It's unfortunate vehicles can't be sold like normal products. Here's the price, take it or leave it.

Can't be? That Tesla's model. The auto industry, however, has severely fought several aspects of their approach.

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[LuvHydro]

Can't be? That Tesla's model. The auto industry, however, has severely fought several aspects of their approach.

OK, let's say won't?

 

[LuvHydro]

It definitely HAS changed the industry, permanently. And yes, big automakers like GM and Toyota have indeed stated that dealers won't be carrying the level of inventory that they used to. I believe that. But I don't see it stopping the discounts from coming back. With new vehicle prices having increased the way they have, the demand isn't going to be there. So the reduction in inventory will simply be commensurate with the reduction in demand. We'll get back to 10%+ routine discounts, but we're still looking at significantly higher prices because of the higher MSRP. As always, incomes have not increased to keep pace with the higher prices, so demand is going to stay down.

Yep

 

[AMT]

At least you didn't get a Tesla in the last 7 months (or especially a week ago)!!

Just curious, what happened with the Teslas?

 

[Deleted member 59498]

I remember my Dad talking about Saturn. Apparently they had no-haggle pricing, but people were so used to not paying sticker, they didn't last long. But I think their cars were shit too.

Was not like ancient history they went out of business with GM crashing with everything else in 2008ish.

They were decent cars though and yes salesmen didn't get commission and you paid what it said on the sticker, no haggling etc. Tesla didn't invent that sales model, just the no dealer franchise thing. Were budget cars, I owned one it ran forever and was still running when I sold it off several years later.

Oh and they got great MPG.

 

[Strommen95]

It's unfortunate vehicles can't be sold like normal products. Here's the price, take it or leave it.

You wouldn't be feeling that way if you bought a Tesla a few weeks ago.

 

[Xorak]

Just curious, what happened with the Teslas?

The price dropped substantially.

 

[Steph1]

Not sure why you would think that as ICE vehicles become harder to get, they'll be less valuable. The exact opposite is going to happen. The government is going to have to keep subsidizing EVs to get people to switch, and that's going to artificially depress prices. They WANT ICE vehicles to be more expensive than EVs. So actually the ICE vehicle is the more financially secure purchase for the foreseeable future.

Sure hope you're right, but my take is that the closer we get to that obligated technological turn, the less ICE vehicles will be worth do to the fact that oil companies are huge investors in Electric EV technology..... and since oil demand will deminish, so will production and therefore gas will most likely double in price from what they are today, forcing people to switch to electric...... And once that is done, Electricity prices will skyrocket. Don't forget that horse owners had a similar speach back in the day and that new era took a few decades to render the horse obsolete... we are almost halfway there already I believe.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

The price dropped substantially.

Because demand slowed…Model Y was no longer price competitive and supply was ample…and profit margins were excessive. Sound familiar Stellantis?

 

[CT_LFC]

Was not like ancient history they went out of business with GM crashing with everything else in 2008ish.

They were decent cars though and yes salesmen didn't get commission and you paid what it said on the sticker, no haggling etc. Tesla didn't invent that sales model, just the no dealer franchise thing. Were budget cars, I owned one it ran forever and was still running when I sold it off several years later.

Oh and they got great MPG.

Saturn made it to 2010 after GM had to downsize and killed them, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Saab.

I had a 2007 Saturn Sky Redline that i factory ordered and the dealer experience was great, not just the ordering process but the updates during it and the service as well. The car had 160K when i sold it a few years ago and rarely gave me any problems.

It's a shame they were killed. The Sky was their halo car and the designs were starting to get more appealing.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Sure hope you're right, but my take is that the closer we get to that obligated technological turn, the less ICE vehicles will be worth do to the fact that oil companies are huge investors in Electric EV technology..... and since oil demand will deminish, so will production and therefore gas will most likely double in price from what they are today, forcing people to switch to electric...... And once that is done, Electricity prices will skyrocket. Don't forget that horse owners had a similar speach back in the day and that new era took a few decades to render the horse obsolete... we are almost halfway there already I believe.

I think the US is a long way from this scenario. Longer than any car loan. There are huge swaths of this country that EV just don't make sense and the vast majority of low income people cannot afford a new ICE car much less an EV. I know a lot of people who drive 10-15 year old cars because that's what they can afford.

 

[TheNewGuy]

no sales tax

• Alaska
• Delaware
• Montana
• New Hampshire
• Oregon

wonder how bad their income tax is though. govt is going to get their money one way or another

definitely right about dealers

No income tax in NH either. We do have the 4th highest property tax tho

 

[AFD]

Were budget cars, I owned one it ran forever and was still running when I sold it off several years later.

Bought a used Saturn SL2 many years ago. Had it for quite a while and I really liked the thing. Was pretty zippy, got great gas mileage and was so light it felt like I was floating on top of the snow (don't remember ever having another car or truck that did that well in the snow). Never had any problems with it up until the reverse gear went out. After that, I sold it and many years later the same dude was still driving it around without the reverse gear.

They were a cheap car, but never deserved all the hate they got.

 

[Zero_Accel]

Just curious, what happened with the Teslas?

There's new rules for applying for the EV tax credits. Previously to get the full $7500, you had to be in the right income bracket, plus the manufacture sales had to be (significantly) below the threshold of 200,000 vehicles. Tesla very quickly hit that sales number, so no-one would qualify.

Now there's new rules stipulating that there's no vehicle sales limit, BUT, the cars had to be under a specific price range, about $55,000 for SUV's, PLUS a stipulation that certain components had to be built in the U.S. (batteries being one).

Right now the provisions are in a weird state of limbo, the old rules no longer apply, but only the price range provision is active right now, with the manufacturing requirement kicking in at a later date. Tesla (and I'm going to assume that other manufactures might want to join soon) slashed the base price overnight to hop onto the incentive NOW, as it would take time to move all necessary production, if they ever could.

Tesla's Model Y is the biggest price cut, going from $65,000, to $52,000, a 20% price drop. Imagine buying a loaded Rubicon JLU XR from Jeep right now (with a $7500 uncle sugar discount a long thing of the past), only to find out next week that the new price fell $13k overnight. Not only are you screwed out of that $13k on a week old vehicle, you missed a $7500 tax refund, AND your value took a HUGE hit too as people can just buy a new one at effectively $44,500 + TTL, even if you were selling yours at a loss of $15k.

Folks are VERY rightfully upset.

 

[TheRaven]

Sure hope you're right, but my take is that the closer we get to that obligated technological turn, the less ICE vehicles will be worth do to the fact that oil companies are huge investors in Electric EV technology..... and since oil demand will deminish, so will production and therefore gas will most likely double in price from what they are today, forcing people to switch to electric...... And once that is done, Electricity prices will skyrocket. Don't forget that horse owners had a similar speach back in the day and that new era took a few decades to render the horse obsolete... we are almost halfway there already I believe.

Cars aren't horses, and oil is far more profitable than electricity ever will be. Besides, oil companies don't control oil prices, the energy market does. Since production will wind down FOLLOWING the winding down of demand, prices will actually drop. That will lead the government(s) to start raising gas taxes to buoy the price of oil so it doesn't make EVs uncompetitive.

The biggest factor by far though will be the scarcity of ICE vehicles. As we all know, scarcity does not result in LOWER prices.

Also remember that what we're talking about here is AT LEAST 15 years off. Yes I know that politicians and other rich people are telling you that we are going to be "all-EV" by 2035 but that's not physically possible. You and I will not see the day where they make a Netflix show about the last gas station in the country. That's not even likely to happen this CENTURY. That's something our kids might see in their very late years.

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