Jeep Values - Massive Decline

[yokramer]

Back on topic.

You guys have convinced me that Stellantis price increases have been higher than others, except Ford. And GM, John Deere, CanAm, Polaris, Tiffin, Winnebago, Boston Whaler, Grady White, and every other vehicle manufacturer I’ve looked at in the last year or so.

That clearly cant be the case otherwise Kevin would be wrong and that just isnt possible.

Sponsored

 

[NWJeepr]

My parents‘ were of the depression/WW2 generation. They were plenty critical of what they saw as my generation’s softness, and lack of work ethic and commitment to “duty”. They thought the country was “going to hell and a hand-basket” during the turmoil of the late 60s and early 70s, and they didn’t like our preferences in music and many other things, but they never expressed concern about the basics of our education system, and they never worried that the kids being produced by other first-world countries were better educated, more fit, more capable, and more prepared to contribute in every respect. Their recurring theme was “you kids sure have it easy — now get to work!”

My parents were right, of course. No student of history doubts that they had it much harder/worse during the depression and WW2. Many of them really DID walk two miles in the snow to get to school every day…

Thanks to some great and committed parents, we’re still producing lots of great, smart, well-educated kids who are as capable as American kids have ever been, but the average American high school kid is now more likely to be fat, poorly educated compared to his parents and foreign counterparts, and entitled, unchallenged, soft, and lazy. There’s ample objective evidence of all of this. Some of that evidence is shown in the data posted above, but it’s also reflected in piles of research focusing on recruiting challenges in the American military and workforce.

And why do you think that is? People just "choose" not to be smart or work hard enough anymore, or do you think it's the destruction of society around them and the relative lack of opportunity and compensation for their work?

I don’t think anyone should finance more than $20k for a vehicle. I think that’s a big part of why many are upset about their trade in values because they put very little cash down (I know not all of you). I don’t have a car payment anymore, but my wife and I always had a rule that it has to be under $200/month.

A good rule of thumb is no more than 10% gross household income should be devoted to vehicle payments including insurance. If financed, 36 months is about the longest recommended term. Those recommendations circulate in the Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey basic finance tips.

Wrangler resale and trade values are disappointing to everyone, cash or finance, right now.

 

[Whaler27]

And why do you think that is? People just "choose" not to be smart or work hard enough anymore, or do you think it's the destruction of society around them and the relative lack of opportunity and compensation for their work?

This would be a great conversation to bat around by a mountain campfire with plenty of time and a good bottle of whiskey. I'm sure the answer is complicated and beyond my understanding, but I think I know part of the problem. I'm also sure lack of opportunity is NOT part of it.

When I was a kid, jobs off the farm were very hard to find. We had to clean up, wander around, and knock on doors. These days I see help wanted advertisements everywhere, and the inflation-adjusted pay is better too, as are the protections for grunt-level workers. One of my granddaughters, now just seventeen, is averaging over $300 per six-hour shift working as a waitress in a burger joint that also sells beer and wine. Our local fast food places are advertising $18 per hour to start . One of them actually advertised $20 per hour during COVID! Any able-bodied, conviction-free, drug-free, person who wants to work, can work. That hasn't always been true.

The incentives and pay in the military are also better than they were in my day. One of my sons enlisted as a grunt, busted his hump, got selected for the "Stay-21" program (college program for sailors and Marines...STA stands for "Seaman to Admiral"). He got paid as an E5, including BAQ, for three years while he got an all-expense-paid engineering degree. His enlisted time was applied to his service obligation too, so he only had to serve a total of eight years.

It feels like there's more opportunity than ever for the few who are willing to apply themselves, but we seem to have a lot of folks that don't understand that success can require hard work. A little struggle, suffering, and competition is often part of the road to success.

This afternoon I heard a Brigadier General testify concerning budget and recruiting challenges. He said less than ten percent of our graduating high school seniors are fit for military service, and less than one percent of those envision potential service in the military.

Yikes!

 

[Twisted10]

And there is a major problem. Too many people

This would be a great conversation to bat around by a mountain campfire with plenty of time and a good bottle of whiskey. I'm sure the answer is complicated and beyond my understanding, but I think I know part of the problem. I'm also sure lack of opportunity is NOT part of it.

When I was a kid, jobs off the farm were very hard to find. We had to clean up, wander around, and knock on doors. These days I see help wanted advertisements everywhere, and the inflation-adjusted pay is better too, as are the protections for grunt-level workers. One of my granddaughters, now just seventeen, is averaging over $300 per six-hour shift working as a waitress in a burger joint that also sells beer and wine. Our local fast food places are advertising $18 per hour to start . One of them actually advertised $20 per hour during COVID! Any able-bodied, conviction-free, drug-free, person who wants to work, can work. That hasn't always been true.

The incentives and pay in the military are also better than they were in my day. One of my sons enlisted as a grunt, busted his hump, got selected for the "Stay-21" program (college program for sailors and Marines...STA stands for "Seaman to Admiral"). He got paid as an E5, including BAQ, for three years while he got an all-expense-paid engineering degree. His enlisted time was applied to his service obligation too, so he only had to serve a total of eight years.

It feels like there's more opportunity than ever for the few who are willing to apply themselves, but we seem to have a lot of folks that don't understand that success can require hard work. A little struggle, suffering, and competition is often part of the road to success.

This afternoon I heard a Brigadier General testify concerning budget and recruiting challenges. He said less than ten percent of our graduating high school seniors are fit for military service, and less than one percent of those envision potential service in the military.

Yikes!

because the gov will pay you to do nothing now. and the internet has told every slob they are worth double what they are actually worth.

here we are!

 

[Whaler27]

A warning to friends here: Anything that might be construed as a reference to a government policy, action, or influence may be prohibited on this forum as political speech. That rule is occasionally, unpredictably, and ruthlessly enforced. I’ve been spanked twice, the last time for discussion of challenges/consequences related to the addition of ethanol to gasoline.

I’ve unsuccessfully sought clarification on what constitutes political speech when no political party or advocacy is involved, but apparently there’s no rule or direction on that. As near as I can tell, if the discussion turns to anything that’s potentially controversial, potentially influenced by any government policy, and not directly related to jeeps, it’s radioactive and can subject the author to banning. I don’t want to be banned, and I don’t want you to be banned. I wouldn’t describe any of this conversation as “political”, but I can see how it might turn into what the moderators would consider ban-worthy, so I’m out. Sorry to bail out after stirring this up.

I think this stuff is interesting and important to talk about. Happy to visit offline for the simulated campfire effect.

 

[Zandcwhite]

That clearly cant be the case otherwise Kevin would be wrong and that just isnt possible.

I pointed out 10 pages ago he didn't like facts or figures unless they were his made up and/or rounded up by thousands on the Jeep side and down by thousands on the "x" side. From base model to top of the line virtually every actual competitor is more expensive. A few like the 4runner don't have a real top of the line competitor so there the fully loaded might be cheaper. Most others are significantly more expensive. Fully loaded defender, land cruiser, Grenadier? All at F U money prices. I'm still waiting for my redesigned frame/body/tub and 37s we were promised in the refresh...

 

[Rubi6mt]

When I bought my latest Jeep, its knowing this is a 100% sunk cost purely for my enjoyment with the added perk its actually practical to toss the keys to my wife who likes it.

Vehicles are a depreciating asset (if you can even call it an asset).

Bought it for $87k before taxes etc so call it mid $90k's out the door. 1 year later and 7,564 miles KBB private says average price today is $76k.

Given I put a large chunk down (close to 50%) I'll see cash returned should I sell.

But this is all for fun as I am about to sink more money into it adding skidplates, lift, tires etc soon

 

[Ratbert]

Look, you fanboys can try to deflect all you want but it doesn't change the facts. The whole "look over there" and "this guy is at it again" routines only work on you. No one else is fooled.

You kids have fun in your circle jerk.

We're still waiting on you to give concrete examples with Wrangler's direct competition that prove your point. You know, like I did to refute it?

Try not to use "the Earth obviously looks flat, so it's flat" types of arguments if possible. Actual numbers are significantly more convincing.

 

[viper88]

Maybe it's the Bronco Effect. I never thought I'd see that because the Bronco doesn't have a solid front axle and we all knew (as Jeep owners) that it's superior and the only product you could ever buy. Yet the people outside of this bubble just don't care and now have a similar choice, thus can cross shop.

I'm not saying Bronco sales are through the roof but pre Bronco, people pretty much just bought a Jeep. Now, that product has probably cut into the Jeep sales, so not being the only game in town, Jeep will have to try harder.

The Bronco definitely took a huge cut of of the pie from Wrangler.

 

[gek]

Sponsored