Toe In or Toe Out

[AZRubic0n]

@Roky has been amazing helping me to dial in my suspension. I've learned so much.

I picked up a set of TMR plates as well thinking they'd give me an accurate measurement but when I took my jeep in for an alignment check my numbers were all over the place. How did I mess up a such a simple task? Does the weight of the jeep need to be on rotors?

I agree with what @jaymz posted as well. Would have stated the same. I always have the vehicle at ride height with the suspension loaded properly because why not be as accurate as possible. It is super critical tho to make sure the vehicle is at proper ride height and on level ground when adjusting castor (for those that have adjustable control arms or castor bolts).
Just because an alignment shop stated your measurements were off doesn’t mean they were as there are lots of shops that as well do not know (sadly) what they are doing.

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[KNN]

Thanks. I think things are pretty dialed in now. Took three alignment checks/adjustments but my caster is where it should be now. ?

 

[Wraith]

Are the TMR alignment plates the recommended ones for the job (Steer Smarts don't appear to offer theirs any longer)? I have always used a makeshift method to get this close and then have the dealership do the final adjustment but I am thinking of picking up the plates for when my Steer Smarts components arrive. I am thinking ill start with 1/16" toe in and see how it goes. I have had good success on previous Jeeps with that setting. Thanks for the input!

 

[Old Dogger]

For 37’s, 1/16” toe-in is what is needed.

 

[verapx]

Toe out works better on trail rigs in 4WD. The front axle pulling itself forward brings toe out closer to 0. If you were already toe in it would become worse. Toe in is probably best for the street in 2WD though.

 

[Wraith]

For 37’s, 1/16” toe-in is what is needed.

Appreciate the input!

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

I also have the TMR Aligment tool... but I am curious now about the measurement of the toe... this tool is 24 inches in length

Toe is measured at the edges.. but... isn't the length of the tool an arbitrary length?.. I am asking because the tool length affects the Toe reading... imagine you use this tool that is 24'' in length and you read 1/8 Toe In... now.. install a new tool that is, let's say double the length at 48'' .. The new Toe In reading is certainly not going to be 1/8 but more than that... so... my point is that for a company to recommend a toe value for their products, are they basing the recommended value on a industry standard, or is it just... well... an arbitrary value based on their own methodology...

Yeah, I could not help it.. I am a geek.. LOL

 

[mygreenkaw]

Isn't the point of measurement the same distance from the center of the axle? I thought tow 2as just the diffenence between those measurements.

I also have the TMR Aligment tool... but I am curious now about the measurement of the toe... this tool is 24 inches in length

Toe is measured at the edges.. but... isn't the length of the tool an arbitrary length?.. I am asking because the tool length affects the Toe reading... imagine you use this tool that is 24'' in length and you read 1/8 Toe In... now.. install a new tool that is, let's say double the length at 48'' .. The new Toe In reading is certainly not going to be 1/8 but more than that... so... my point is that for a company to recommend a toe value for their products, are they basing the recommended value on a industry standard, or is it just... well... an arbitrary value based on their own methodology...

Yeah, I could not help it.. I am a geek.. LOL

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

Isn't the point of measurement the same distance from the center of the axle? I thought tow 2as just the diffenence between those measurements.

The way this tool is used.. the Toe measurement is the difference between the reading in the front and rear of the grooves on the tool .. here is a video

 

[kah.mun.rah]

I keep my toes on the nose (1/8" out).

 

[Headbarcode]

I also have the TMR Aligment tool... but I am curious now about the measurement of the toe... this tool is 24 inches in length

Toe is measured at the edges.. but... isn't the length of the tool an arbitrary length?.. I am asking because the tool length affects the Toe reading... imagine you use this tool that is 24'' in length and you read 1/8 Toe In... now.. install a new tool that is, let's say double the length at 48'' .. The new Toe In reading is certainly not going to be 1/8 but more than that... so... my point is that for a company to recommend a toe value for their products, are they basing the recommended value on a industry standard, or is it just... well... an arbitrary value based on their own methodology...

Yeah, I could not help it.. I am a geek.. LOL

Looking at that tmr fixture has me thinking the same thoughts.

1/16" total toe-in fixed the shimmy I was having at 1/8" with 35's. My measurements are across both the leading and trailing edges of the tire tread, at least as high up as I can get a straight line across the vehicle. When I jumped to 38's, I didn't get the shimmy back but the steering felt off. I wasn't surprised by that because, at least in my mind, the increased radius caused the difference between those 2 measurements to also increase. I reduced the toe to 1/16" and it felt right again.

This post isn't my claiming to know better than tmr, but I too am curious to hear the reason why 24" is the magic number.

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

Looking at that tmr fixture has me thinking the same thoughts.

1/16" total toe-in fixed the shimmy I was having at 1/8" with 35's. My measurements are across both the leading and trailing edges of the tire tread, at least as high up as I can get a straight line across the vehicle. When I jumped to 38's, I didn't get the shimmy back but the steering felt off. I wasn't surprised by that because, at least in my mind, the increased radius caused the difference between those 2 measurements to also increase. I reduced the toe to 1/16" and it felt right again.

This post isn't my claiming to know better than tmr, but I too am curious to hear the reason why 24" is the magic number.

I believe the idea of using that alignment tool is flawed by design... I can come up with a similar tool that is 36 inches long, and while from the mathematical /scientific point of view is going to be more accurate, it will certainly produce results that differ from a 24 inch tool... unless 24 inch is an industry-standard (which I certainly doubt because alignment machines used by tire shops I am sure do not use those parameters) ... then I do not see a way for a tool bought online to match the results of a tire shop using modern machines) ... so... I think these tools made by BleepinJeep and TMR do work... but we will have to join forces and share results... I run 40 inch tires and I am going to use my tool in the coming days... I will share results... !!

 

[J0E]

I believe the idea of using that alignment tool is flawed by design... I can come up with a similar tool that is 36 inches long, and while from the mathematical /scientific point of view is going to be more accurate, it will certainly produce results that differ from a 24 inch tool...

That tool is far more accurate than guestimating on the tire. It's a linear function so it's easy to convert. I'm no fan of banned pony tail or Dynatrac marketing but you can see how they do it here.

So use the 24" tool and if you want to want 1/16" on a 37" tire
1/16*37/24 = ~ .096
At that point I'd use mm.
But I question 1/16" is perfect for 33" tires and 43s.

Edit:

The way this tool is used.. the Toe measurement is the difference between the reading in the front and rear of the grooves on the tool .. here is a video

Exactly, you want degrees, which is invariant to bar length, and the tool has the degrees to inches conversion so you don't have to do trig.

 

[dragoneggs]

Yeah, sad to say that I haven't had a chance to drag it yet. Offroading is illegal in newyorkistan and highly enforced on long Island. I know a couple of guys who got caught and they described the penalties as being akin to a dui. It's easier to get away with it further upstate, as there's so much more land, but over 90% of NY is privately owned so there's always a risk.

Winter is my off-season with work, so I can head over to Pennsylvania to smack her around a bit.

You don't belong there!

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

That tool is far more accurate than guestimating on the tire. It's a linear function so it's easy to convert. I'm no fan of banned pony tail or Dynatrac marketing but you can see how they do it here.

So use the 24" tool and if you want to want 1/16" on a 37" tire
1/16*37/24 = ~ .096
At that point I'd use mm.
But I question 1/16" is perfect for 33" tires and 43s.

Yeah.. I saw that video in the past... although it seems like a legitimate way to do it since you are comparing exactly the rear and the front of the tire.. for sure precise measurements like 1/16 of an inch using chalk and guesstimating the center of the tire certainly does not have enough precision... however!!! this whole mental exercise got me thinking.. if the TMR tool can be extended to be "exactly" the diameter of the tire then I think we would get a more realistic toe value as it would be like measuring on the tire but with a more precise tool and methodology ...

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