Ticking Timebomb?

AZ-Chris

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So I had been looking at the diesel for a while and it seems like the way people talk about the Engine/Exhaust system these have a limited lifespan until costly repairs are expected. What is everyone’s plan as these start getting into the 70-100k mile range?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broke, make the repairs/modifications that make sense at the time. Sure, I have concerns about the complexity and longevity of the exhaust system, but it isn't going to stop me from enjoying the characteristics of a diesel Wrangler when rock crawling and exploring the North American continent. I've got ~10K trouble-free miles on the odometer, recently lifted on 37's and still enjoying 23+ mpg at 75 mph cruising speed. In my region, diesel is 5 cents cheaper per gallon than regular unleaded. What's not to like?
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Bubalooie

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this is not true, do you own a diesel?
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.
this is not true, do you own a diesel?
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.

I agree with MR Sandoval 100%,
I have run diesel equipment for 35 years and have owned diesel pickups for 35 years, and even before all the emissions bullshit, not working a Diesel engine was detrimental to its health and longevity. A Diesel engine runs very cold at idle, causing soot buildup, causing engine fouling, causing dirtier oil and improper piston ring function. If you are new to Diesel engines you should educate yourself. If you are not new to Diesel engines, you should educate yourself. The emission systems bring a whole new set of problems to diesel engines. like x 10
 

grostage

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It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.

It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.

I agree with MR Sandoval 100%,
I have run diesel equipment for 35 years and have owned diesel pickups for 35 years, and even before all the emissions bullshit, not working a Diesel engine was detrimental to its health and longevity. A Diesel engine runs very cold at idle, causing soot buildup, causing engine fouling, causing dirtier oil and improper piston ring function. If you are new to Diesel engines you should educate yourself. If you are not new to Diesel engines, you should educate yourself. The emission systems bring a whole new set of problems to diesel engines. like x 10
Nobody is talking about "equipment" i thought this was about the 3.0L ecodiesel which is far from any equipment or heavy duty pickups, the only thing these things share is the fact they are compression ignition engines...i actually own a ecodiesel and am a mechanic by trade im not just here shooting my mouth off calling people stupid... i also live in the north where my diesel is put to the test for 6-8months out of the year in -20 to-40 c temps. i have had zero problems, oil is clean and free from fuel contamination etc. did i miss something? did jeep put out a diesel engine in the wrangler with the intent that people would only highway drive? am i actually not supposed to drive in town? that would be stupid...i have also never seen a dpf cleaned by idling at a dealer ship at 3000rpm or whatever buddy said...thats just me though, filters are typically removed baked and blown out with compressed air. so i guess ill continue to educate myself. and you can keep inspecting pipelines...
 

Bubalooie

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Nobody is talking about "equipment" i thought this was about the 3.0L ecodiesel which is far from any equipment or heavy duty pickups, the only thing these things share is the fact they are compression ignition engines...i actually own a ecodiesel and am a mechanic by trade im not just here shooting my mouth off calling people stupid... i also live in the north where my diesel is put to the test for 6-8months out of the year in -20 to-40 c temps. i have had zero problems, oil is clean and free from fuel contamination etc. did i miss something? did jeep put out a diesel engine in the wrangler with the intent that people would only highway drive? am i actually not supposed to drive in town? that would be stupid...i have also never seen a dpf cleaned by idling at a dealer ship at 3000rpm or whatever buddy said...thats just me though, filters are typically removed baked and blown out with compressed air. so i guess ill continue to educate myself. and you can keep inspecting pipelines...
k
 

Ruby Mike

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California already requires smog testing. The state attempted to monitor emissions at the Mexican border and quickly gave up. The vast majority of the vehicles coming over the border were out of compliance with California regulations. I honestly don't know what the future will bring.
From my personal experience, the diesel engine in my Rubicon is working as designed. I have 24k on the engine and have no problems. On road I have good mileage and power. Off road I am never lacking for power or torque. I understand that this may be different from other people's experiences. I have 3 vehicles and they are all diesel.
 

DaltonGang

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broke, make the repairs/modifications that make sense at the time. Sure, I have concerns about the complexity and longevity of the exhaust system, but it isn't going to stop me from enjoying the characteristics of a diesel Wrangler when rock crawling and exploring the North American continent. I've got ~10K trouble-free miles on the odometer, recently lifted on 37's and still enjoying 23+ mpg at 75 mph cruising speed. In my region, diesel is 5 cents cheaper per gallon than regular unleaded. What's not to like?
The problem with the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" theory, in modern diesels is that it isnt that simple. You guys with modern diesels, "Pay Attention". When you pump diesel exhaust(EGR) back into the engine, it does damage, which is cumulative. When you add back pressure, by restricting the exhaust(Diesel Particle Filter), you do damage, which is cumulative. You wont see.it in the early miles, but it all adds up. Hence the word "Cumulative". The longer you keep that crap on your engine, the more damage is done, even if you dont see it at 5-10-20K miles. Just because you dont see.it, doesnt mean it isnt there.
 

AZ-Chris

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The problem with the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" theory, in modern diesels is that it isnt that simple. You guys with modern diesels, "Pay Attention". When you pump diesel exhaust(EGR) back into the engine, it does damage, which is cumulative. When you add back pressure, by restricting the exhaust(Diesel Particle Filter), you do damage, which is cumulative. You wont see.it in the early miles, but it all adds up. Hence the word "Cumulative". The longer you keep that crap on your engine, the more damage is done, even if you dont see it at 5-10-20K miles. Just because you dont see.it, doesnt mean it isnt there.
As a retired mechanical engineer, I simply consider this to be necessary "routine" maintenance, though the maintenance interval is considerably longer for the exhaust components. Wear and tear occur on a daily basis to every component in every machine. Your tires wear with every revolution under load.

To me, the question of whether we have a "ticking time bomb" is related to excessive premature wear by poor design or otherwise. I'm not crazy about all this emissions garbage all modern diesel engines have been saddled with, but it is what it is. These systems can either be maintained or deleted as the owner sees fit.
 

DaltonGang

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As a retired mechanical engineer, I simply consider this to be necessary "routine" maintenance, though the maintenance interval is considerably longer for the exhaust components. Wear and tear occur on a daily basis to every component in every machine. Your tires wear with every revolution under load.

To me, the question of whether we have a "ticking time bomb" is related to excessive premature wear by poor design or otherwise. I'm not crazy about all this emissions garbage all modern diesel engines have been saddled with, but it is what it is. These systems can either be maintained or deleted as the owner sees fit.
As for ticking time bomb, I guess it depends on this diesel engine, and whether you do the detailed preventative maintenance. Then knowing the issues EGR will have on the engine, heading off issues before they do damage. That is a hard one to predict, with such a new engine. i guess time and mileage will tell us what we need to know.
 

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It's assumed you will do your maintenance - which given the detail you need to digest and follow - to use the correct oils, etc - it isn't a given for everyone. Diesel oil threads are always good for a laugh - a few have crept into this forum.

Diesel is fundamentally a much dirtier fuel to burn than gasoline. Problem is no matter what you do - owners have found on these post 2007 diesels - there will be considerably more problems at considerably higher cost - to process the emissions.

Remove the emissions equipment? Best of luck with that, especially now that the "reputable" outlets have been shut down. Even when that stuff was available, there were a lot of both success and fail stories. Check engine lights that won't turn off, weird operating behavior, etc. WTF do you expect - massively complex systems that have been black-box reverse engineered and hacked.

I personally have had a MB OM642 CRD diesel bought new in 2008. I'm tired of $200 oil changes (my cost from NAPA), spending an entire day cleaning the EGR cooler every few years, several hours every other oil change blasting soot out of the EGR valve, etc. My costs are about as low as possible so far at 140k. My peers who have to rely on mechanics have generally done VERY poorly. Oil changes are $400 and up. EGR valves are $600-$1000. An EGR cooler cleaning is $3000-$5000 and up. A DPF or catalytic overhaul and you might as well cut your losses and sell the vehicle. Basically, mechanics see $$$ and get very greedy when one of these f*****g modern diesel vehicles pulls into the shop - and you're going to have to fight that for the entire life of the vehicle. They assume you're willing to pay extra for your very special engine - and your choices are very limited. Painfully few are capable of doing more than guessing and shot-gunning parts into the problem, while simultaneously destroying everything in their path. Nobody I have ever spoken to has claimed an economic benefit for cost of ownership.

Fun to own one at some level - but never again.
 

DaltonGang

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It's assumed you will do your maintenance - which given the detail you need to digest and follow - to use the correct oils, etc - it isn't a given for everyone. Diesel oil threads are always good for a laugh - a few have crept into this forum.

Diesel is fundamentally a much dirtier fuel to burn than gasoline. Problem is no matter what you do - owners have found on these post 2007 diesels - there will be considerably more problems at considerably higher cost - to process the emissions.

Remove the emissions equipment? Best of luck with that, especially now that the "reputable" outlets have been shut down. Even when that stuff was available, there were a lot of both success and fail stories. Check engine lights that won't turn off, weird operating behavior, etc. WTF do you expect - massively complex systems that have been black-box reverse engineered and hacked.

I personally have had a MB OM642 CRD diesel bought new in 2008. I'm tired of $200 oil changes (my cost from NAPA), spending an entire day cleaning the EGR cooler every few years, several hours every other oil change blasting soot out of the EGR valve, etc. My costs are about as low as possible so far at 140k. My peers who have to rely on mechanics have generally done VERY poorly. Oil changes are $400 and up. EGR valves are $600-$1000. An EGR cooler cleaning is $3000-$5000 and up. A DPF or catalytic overhaul and you might as well cut your losses and sell the vehicle. Basically, mechanics see $$$ and get very greedy when one of these f*****g modern diesel vehicles pulls into the shop - and you're going to have to fight that for the entire life of the vehicle. They assume you're willing to pay extra for your very special engine - and your choices are very limited. Painfully few are capable of doing more than guessing and shot-gunning parts into the problem, while simultaneously destroying everything in their path. Nobody I have ever spoken to has claimed an economic benefit for cost of ownership.

Fun to own one at some level - but never again.
I see you live in Boulder Colorado. I dont know how the emissions checks are, on personal cars and trucks. If like Texas, rip all the emissions crap off, and enjoy owning your diesel, for hundreds of thousands of worry free miles.
 

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I see you live in Boulder Colorado. I dont know how the emissions checks are, on personal cars and trucks. If like Texas, rip all the emissions crap off, and enjoy owning your diesel, for hundreds of thousands of worry free miles.
I see you have no idea what you are talking about. An OM642 will go into LIMP mode - stuck in a lower gear - if it even starts at all - by removing emissions equipment. Too many sensors, too many algorithms. Many have tried the obvious and failed miserably - as if it's still the 1970's. I find it inconceivable a 2018+ diesel would be any different - if not more difficult to bypass anything what-so-ever in the emissions system - and still expect reliable operation.
 
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GtX

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That is another thing often overlooked. Putting an additional 400 lbs on the nose of a vehicle who had marginal steering to begin with, introduces another set of challenges.

Don't get me wrong. I love that Jeep made the diesel option available. I think it is the right move to capture the diehard diesel fans and the long haulers. But the reality is that the second Jeep releases a proper turbo 6-cyl (hopefully in-line on the Wrangler) with 400+ ftlbs of torque the demand for the diesel will likely evaporate. Sadly, Jeep does not have any 300+ HP 4 or 6 cyl engines available at the moment. It's a hole in the engine line up. Ford for example has 1/2 dozen such engines. GM ditto.
My JLURD...
Steering is fine 🤷‍♂️
Torque is wonderful 🤷‍♂️
Holds 8th gear 🤷‍♂️
Fuel mileage is great 🤷‍♂️
Sounds good 🤷‍♂️
Zero issues 🤷‍♂️
Not worried about cost of oil change 🤷‍♂️
Not worried about maintenance 🤷‍♂️
Paid cash 🤷‍♂️
Is a toy 🤷‍♂️
Having fun with it 🤷‍♂️
Can help but realize those winning don't own a diesel 🤷‍♂️
Can help but notice diesel owners aren't bashing gas motors 🤷‍♂️
Wondering why most of ya'll so bitter 🤷‍♂️
 
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Pmccammon00

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Newbie diesel owner here. Waited and salivated for the JLUD to arrive and ordered one in early 2020. I have had so many issues that I joked with the dealer to order a backup bulb for the CEL.
1700 miles- humidity sensor warning.
7100 miles- turbo charger went out. Had to wait a month for parts. Dealer had to pull the cab off to replace.
11k - went completely dead and couldn't even jump it. Dealer replaced both the main and the ESS battery.
17k-transmission light saying it was trying to go lock the rear tires. Sensor was bad but they had to replace the entire rear differential due to the fact the sensor is not a serviceable part.
17k-21k intermittent code for the front and rear NOx sensors.
19-21k intermittent signal that there is something seriously wrong with the charging system.
19-21k intermittent signal that the DEF systems needs to checked by the dealer.
I have only one thing to add:. Tick, tick, tick . . .
 

gato

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Can help but realize those winning don't own a diesel 🤷‍♂️
Can help but notice diesel owners aren't bashing gas motors 🤷‍♂️
Wondering why most of ya'll so bitter 🤷‍♂️
Not sure anyone is bashing the Diesel motor - what can possibly be wrong with choice.

If anything, I am lamenting the lack of a 6-cyl turbo gas engine. Almost every automaker is offering a gasoline turbo-6. Except Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler.

I guess my question to you is, are you enjoying the diesel per se, or are you enjoying the torque of a 6-cyl turbo engine? If you had the choice of a 6cyl turbo gasoline engine like say an Ecoboost 3.0, which has more power, same torque, lower cost, much lower weight, would you not like it as much?

That is what Ford is finding on the F-150. The Ecoboost 6 are better in every aspect and preferred by buyers, so they killed the diesel.
 

DaltonGang

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I see you have no idea what you are talking about. An OM642 will go into LIMP mode - stuck in a lower gear - if it even starts at all - by removing emissions equipment. Too many sensors, too many algorithms. Many have tried the obvious and failed miserably - as if it's still the 1970's. I find it inconceivable a 2018+ diesel would be any different - if not more difficult to bypass anything what-so-ever in the emissions system - and still expect reliable operation.
Programmer wise-ass.
BTW, you never answered my question, on emissions testing for diesels in Boulder Colorado.
 
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