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Ticking Timebomb?

DaltonGang

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Newbie diesel owner here. Waited and salivated for the JLUD to arrive and ordered one in early 2020. I have had so many issues that I joked with the dealer to order a backup bulb for the CEL.
1700 miles- humidity sensor warning.
7100 miles- turbo charger went out. Had to wait a month for parts. Dealer had to pull the cab off to replace.
11k - went completely dead and couldn't even jump it. Dealer replaced both the main and the ESS battery.
17k-transmission light saying it was trying to go lock the rear tires. Sensor was bad but they had to replace the entire rear differential due to the fact the sensor is not a serviceable part.
17k-21k intermittent code for the front and rear NOx sensors.
19-21k intermittent signal that there is something seriously wrong with the charging system.
19-21k intermittent signal that the DEF systems needs to checked by the dealer.
I have only one thing to add:. Tick, tick, tick . . .
Oh, no you didnt!!! Now someone will be demanding your VIN number, and the repair orders, to prove you really own a diesel, and are.having issues. Heretic!!!
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PillowFightr

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Newbie diesel owner here. Waited and salivated for the JLUD to arrive and ordered one in early 2020. I have had so many issues that I joked with the dealer to order a backup bulb for the CEL.
1700 miles- humidity sensor warning.
7100 miles- turbo charger went out. Had to wait a month for parts. Dealer had to pull the cab off to replace.
11k - went completely dead and couldn't even jump it. Dealer replaced both the main and the ESS battery.
17k-transmission light saying it was trying to go lock the rear tires. Sensor was bad but they had to replace the entire rear differential due to the fact the sensor is not a serviceable part.
17k-21k intermittent code for the front and rear NOx sensors.
19-21k intermittent signal that there is something seriously wrong with the charging system.
19-21k intermittent signal that the DEF systems needs to checked by the dealer.
I have only one thing to add:. Tick, tick, tick . . .
None of your issues is diesel related.. You have some loose ground, un-seated fuses, bad computer or something like that..
 

AZ-Chris

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. . .
I guess my question to you is, are you enjoying the diesel per se, or are you enjoying the torque of a 6-cyl turbo engine? If you had the choice of a 6cyl turbo gasoline engine like say an Ecoboost 3.0, which has more power, same torque, lower cost, much lower weight, would you not like it as much?
For me, this would be a little difficult to answer since this wasn't an option any of us had.

Given the 3 engine choices I had in early 2020, the EcoDiesel was, by FAR, the best choice for me. The low-end torque, fuel efficiency, AND range were huge and distinct advantages . . . worth every cent of it's price premium over the others. Even if the 392 Hemi were an option, I would not have gone that route for a few reasons . . . fuel efficiency, non-turbo (loss of power at elevation), range and most importantly, cost.

For me, A turbo 6-cylinder gas engine would be favorable to all of the non-diesel engines Jeep offers, but I doubt it would compare favorably with the (importantly) low-end torque of the diesel, nor the fuel efficiency or range. Lets face it, the diesel torque advantage at low rpms is IDEAL for rock crawling, and the extended range is IDEAL for overlanding. A 6-cylinder turbo gas engine would probably provide adequate power and fuel economy, but I doubt it would match the EcoDiesel . . . but it would probably not cost as much.
 

PillowFightr

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There is a very very good reason that Toyota is going to offer the diesel in the tundra for the US market..

There is also a very good reason that the new 300 series land cruiser will be offered in a diesel! However that will not be offered here in the US due to who knows what reasons..
 

DaltonGang

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NBB

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Programmer wise-ass.
BTW, you never answered my question, on emissions testing for diesels in Boulder Colorado.
Fair enough - I am definitely a wise-ass.

Diesel emissions here are tested every 2 yrs. It's a very simple particulate test done on a dyno, a check for modifications to the emissions hardware, and verification of no check engine light. No other gases - basically just a smoke test. It's 80 or so bucks.

The limits are pretty loose - ie, a post 2007 diesel basically blows all zeros.

Guy at the test center told me of someone who flipped their ECU back to its modified version right after passing the test and rolled coal all the way down the street.

It's basically a waste of time and money.

Green Diesel was a popular ECU mod provider. In CO, you'd likely pass emissions without reverting your ECU. However, in CA, my understanding is they either now or plan to soon - to read a software check-sum in the ECU indicating the factory released firmware is in there and unmodified - so you'd fail. It's not difficult to conceive of a hardware/software checksum that is smarter than most tuners can change - ie secure and tied to factory servers - that could be read during an emissions test.
 

NBB

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DEF system.
...and most definitely

"17k-21k intermittent code for the front and rear NOx sensors."

These sensors get clogged with soot. On my engine, they come in pairs with a cal number that has to be programmed into the computer - ie, you can't replace them yourself. You're looking at $1-2k, if I recall - and probably other stuff that needs repair as well, as this is generally just a symptom.
 

DaltonGang

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Fair enough - I am definitely a wise-ass.

Diesel emissions here are tested every 2 yrs. It's a very simple particulate test done on a dyno, a check for modifications to the emissions hardware, and verification of no check engine light. No other gases - basically just a smoke test. It's 80 or so bucks.

The limits are pretty loose - ie, a post 2007 diesel basically blows all zeros.

Guy at the test center told me of someone who flipped their ECU back to its modified version right after passing the test and rolled coal all the way down the street.

It's basically a waste of time and money.

Green Diesel was a popular ECU mod provider. In CO, you'd likely pass emissions without reverting your ECU. However, in CA, my understanding is they either now or plan to soon - to read a software check-sum in the ECU indicating the factory released firmware is in there and unmodified - so you'd fail. It's not difficult to conceive of a hardware/software checksum that is smarter than most tuners can change - ie secure and tied to factory servers - that could be read during an emissions test.
Definitely different in Texas. My diesel truck testing is, that it can stop, has brake lights, and the wipers work. $7.50 .
 

gato

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There is a very very good reason that Toyota is going to offer the diesel in the tundra for the US market..
Do you have a link or source to that (not challenging, just wanted to read up on it)?

I thought Toyota said there will be 2 new engines. One "more powerful than current V8" (either V8 or turbo gas 6) and another "new technology" (unspecified). Are you saying that they "new technology" will be a diesel?
 

PillowFightr

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Do you have a link or source to that (not challenging, just wanted to read up on it)?

I thought Toyota said there will be 2 new engines. One "more powerful than current V8" (either V8 or turbo gas 6) and another "new technology" (unspecified). Are you saying that they "new technology" will be a diesel?
Sure thing, here is a link:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36676044/toyota-land-cruiser-300-series-revealed/

The new engines are twin-turbo V6 gas and 3.3 turbo diesel, not sure when the US will get them and in which SUV/truck, at the least the tundra will get the diesel, which will be insane! That will produce 516 torque at idle!

This is coming from a company that has said they want to go full electric everything by 2050!
There is no denying that we Off-roaders/explorers and Overlanders NEED high torque at low rpm, and diesel is the only way right now!

I went to the 3.6 forum and the FIRST threads are about (my 3.6 feels gutless) (My 3.6 looses speed at 60 because i have 37"s) and everyone who replies to "help" those folks tells them (put 5.13 gears..) lol
No one is suggesting.. "geez maybe you need a more powerful engine like a diesel with low end torque!"

I am not denying the simplicity of the 3.6, if i didn't build my jeep the way i have and kept it stock (mall crawler), or even local trail crawler then yeah i would have went with the 3.6

Whats funny is that, the 3.6 people were on the 2.0 forums trying to scare the 2.0 people of "how complicated the 2.0t is and how it will fail soon bla bla...) Seems to me that the 2.0t is doing just fine!

My ticking time-bomb :rock:
Jeep Wrangler JL Ticking Timebomb? Screen Shot 2021-07-14 at 10.27.02 PM
 
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Not sure anyone is bashing the Diesel motor - what can possibly be wrong with choice.

If anything, I am lamenting the lack of a 6-cyl turbo gas engine. Almost every automaker is offering a gasoline turbo-6. Except Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler.

I guess my question to you is, are you enjoying the diesel per se, or are you enjoying the torque of a 6-cyl turbo engine? If you had the choice of a 6cyl turbo gasoline engine like say an Ecoboost 3.0, which has more power, same torque, lower cost, much lower weight, would you not like it as much?

That is what Ford is finding on the F-150. The Ecoboost 6 are better in every aspect and preferred by buyers, so they killed the diesel.
I just did some reading on rumored Stallantis/FCA Tornado engine, a turbo charged inline 6.

Are the delays in announcing the MY22 Wrangler due to production issues? Prepping to roll out the new Recon Extreme package across all trims? Bringing the new Tornado to the Wrangler? Bringing Uconnect5 to the Wrangler?
All we know is that there seem to be a lot of changes coming to this already complex line. I think the diesel is a very cool engine option, but I'm starting to wonder if this option stays in the lineup if a turbo I6 gets introduced by the mid cycle refresh.

Another element that the diesel has working against it is it's lack of ability to be electrified into a 4xe.

Current engine lineup is 2.0T, 3.6, 3.6 etorque, 3.0, 392, and 4xe (2.0T).

Now I'm starting to wonder if the future brings some simplification? Maybe 2.0T, Tornado, 4xe (2.0T) and 4xe (Tornado). Focus on 2 motors, both with the ability to be electrified. It likely wouldn't hit the MPG of the diesel, but if a 4xe version exist... maybe it doesn't matter?

That's a lot of speculation, but it feels like that lineup has potential to simplify designs, hit a wide rage of power options, and appease all the current EPA/electric pushes. I guess time will tell.
 
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grimmjeeper

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Fair enough - I am definitely a wise-ass.

Diesel emissions here are tested every 2 yrs. It's a very simple particulate test done on a dyno, a check for modifications to the emissions hardware, and verification of no check engine light. No other gases - basically just a smoke test. It's 80 or so bucks.

The limits are pretty loose - ie, a post 2007 diesel basically blows all zeros.

Guy at the test center told me of someone who flipped their ECU back to its modified version right after passing the test and rolled coal all the way down the street.

It's basically a waste of time and money.

Green Diesel was a popular ECU mod provider. In CO, you'd likely pass emissions without reverting your ECU. However, in CA, my understanding is they either now or plan to soon - to read a software check-sum in the ECU indicating the factory released firmware is in there and unmodified - so you'd fail. It's not difficult to conceive of a hardware/software checksum that is smarter than most tuners can change - ie secure and tied to factory servers - that could be read during an emissions test.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to fake a simple checksum/CRC.

A cryptography based digital signature is harder. But still possible to defeat.
 

gato

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Another element that the diesel has working against it is it's lack of ability to be electrified into a 4xe.
One of many. Another one is the weight of the engine, making it not viable for the 2-door wrangler, due to the likely un-acceptable handling characteristics, less space for the DEF tank, etc.
 

gato

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I went to the 3.6 forum and the FIRST threads are about (my 3.6 feels gutless) (My 3.6 looses speed at 60 because i have 37"s) and everyone who replies to "help" those folks tells them (put 5.13 gears..) lol
Exactly. It's amazing haw people throw around putting 5.13 gears on Dana 30/35/44 axles, which is a horrible idea, specially for a new vehicle with potential axle issues. It voids the warranty and makes for a tiny engagement area for the gears.
 

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The electrical problems are not a Diesel issue only. Seems Jeep has some issues with the very complicated electrical system. I very much enjoy the Diesel. It's excellent on-road and has proven itself off road. If you're hesitant, don't get the diesel. I know of several 3.6 in newer JL's that have been replaced under warranty. My TJ (original owner) engine had to be replaced at 55K. This was a babied vehicle with consistent and frequent oil changes and the 'rock solid' 4.0 still didn't make it. If you want a vehicle that will go 200K, get a Subaru, only vehicle I've ever owned that was still running at 250K. Now, my daughter has a Patriot with over 200K miles so there is some hope for Jeep.
3.6 pentastar, 4.0 as examples on unreliable engines. Subaru and patriot as examples of reliability. This is like the twilight zone, or jerrys bizarro world. Def. a parallel universe of some sort.
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