Thinking the unthinkable

[The Last Cowboy]

The 10A sure as hell wasn’t an investment. Almost all the bits and pieces that made it “exclusive” wound up on other Jeeps.

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[Old Jeeper]

Another thing I've noticed over the past year or so is how the number of new users/owners have dwindled quite a bit. This likely suggests a drop in sales.

I can also see a decrease in the amount of new take off parts for sale locally, which probably reflects not only a drop in sales but a drop in aftermarket modifications on new Jeep. When was the last time you saw someone proudly boast that it was fully built on day one, because they couldn't stand to be seen in a stock Wrangler?

Not only is the price of just buying one getting out of control, but the cost of the accessories are rising too. Combine that with cost of ownership expenses such as registration, maintenance and insurance, and it's a perfect storm. Some states rake you over the coals every year for registration, and insurance has risen so much in the last year that many don't have it.

Sales are down for Jeep in units sold yet the cost keeps inching up and up. I fear Jeep -Chrysler are going to cut their own throat.

I paid $63.000 for my 2023 JLR

I paid $21,XXX for my 2003 TJR

That is a $40,000 gap for a vehicle that to the average person on the street...show them a pic of a '55 CJ and a 2023 JL and see if they tell the difference, same profile. This is the secret to Sky HIGH profits and low sales numbers. Not sure how often Jeep changes dies in the body stamping machines. It does vary across lines and as low as 3000 stampings to as much as 10,000 stampings.

Only the doors on the Jeep have a body gap so stamping has no real radical changes. Can you say PROFIT!!! Same Profile since 1941. Anyone know of an American car with the same profile that has gone that long. Maybe pickup trucks do, but cars don't.

 

[pfletcher229648]

Not sure how many have suggested, but next gen Tacoma or the 4-Runner would be my guess. Hopefully Toyota maintains the ease of modding the new Taco platform. Seeing how it will share the platform with the current Tundra it should have most of the tweaks worked out by next year.

 

[yokramer]

Not sure how many have suggested, but next gen Tacoma or the 4-Runner would be my guess. Hopefully Toyota maintains the ease of modding the new Taco platform. Seeing how it will share the platform with the current Tundra it should have most of the tweaks worked out by next year.

Depends on what you mean of ease of modding. Considering if you want to wheel anything over a 33" tire on a current Taco you need to chop the body mounts I wouldn't call that easy. Its what pushed me over the edge to get a JLR over the Taco Off-Road

 

[_olllllllo_]

Subaru Crosstrek Wilderness. Subaru has the best AWD out, great fuel economy and aftermarket including Bumpers, winch mounts, light mounts, lift kits. Add all of the above and still enjoy 27MPG combined. Quite reliable too.

I own a 2012 Impreza and I will never own another Subaru. The CVT transmission is a money making device for Subaru. Compared to the Honda's I had before, it has had far more niggling issues. The boxer engines are oil consuming beasts after about 75,000 miles. I put in a quart between 1,200 miles post oil change and before the 3,000 mile change interval. Just a single data point based on my experiences.

 

[_olllllllo_]

Not trying to be a wise guy but do you mean 4 years old? Or did you buy it in November 2019 so you have had it 3 years?
Anyway, a Charger GT AWD or a used Grand Cherokee might fit what you’re looking for. I do think the new Colorado and Canyon are going to be worth the wait.

I have a 2018 JLUR and I love it. But I keep looking at other things just because I want a change. But then I look at my Jeep and think it would be a financial mistake to get rid of it and take out a higher interest loan on a vehicle I’d have to spend more money to make to my liking. But I want a change, but I love my Jeep. It’s an endless loop.

I never think of getting rid of my 2019 JLUR, but my wife eternally thinks of switching vehicles, but I nipped that in the bud since we have such a low interest rate on her vehicle. We only have one kid left at home and she has a Mustang convertible, which is great fun but no one wants to ride in the back seat. The current interest rates helped me talk her down getting a different vehicle.

 

[aldo98229]

GM revealed the all-new 2023 Chevrolet Colorado.

There's only one motor: a 2.7 4-cyl turbo in three different output levels; the highest cranking over 400 lbs of torque. The cabin got larger and more comfortable. Max towing is rated at 7,700 lbs; even ZR2 will tow 6,000 lbs. The V6 and the Duramax diesel are gone.

Base price starts right under $30,000 for the work truck.

 

[aldo98229]

I own a 2012 Impreza and I will never own another Subaru. The CVT transmission is a money making device for Subaru. Compared to the Honda's I had before, it has had far more niggling issues. The boxer engines are oil consuming beasts after about 75,000 miles. I put in a quart between 1,200 miles post oil change and before the 3,000 mile change interval. Just a single data point based on my experiences.

Sounds consistent with Subaru stories I've heard. Both the lame CVT and the poor durability of the boxer engine are fairly well known.

 

[aldo98229]

Not sure how many have suggested, but next gen Tacoma or the 4-Runner would be my guess. Hopefully Toyota maintains the ease of modding the new Taco platform. Seeing how it will share the platform with the current Tundra it should have most of the tweaks worked out by next year.

Unfortunately, the recent trend is that Toyota is making its trucks less and less customizable.

Toyota fans are lukewarm with the latest Tundra: no more V8, no more tow hooks, no more free use of the navigation, a weird remote start that shuts off the engine the moment you open the door, etc., etc.

 

[aldo98229]

Sales are down for Jeep in units sold yet the cost keeps inching up and up. I fear Jeep -Chrysler are going to cut their own throat.

I paid $63.000 for my 2023 JLR

I paid $21,XXX for my 2003 TJR

That is a $40,000 gap for a vehicle that to the average person on the street...show them a pic of a '55 CJ and a 2023 JL and see if they tell the difference, same profile. This is the secret to Sky HIGH profits and low sales numbers. Not sure how often Jeep changes dies in the body stamping machines. It does vary across lines and as low as 3000 stampings to as much as 10,000 stampings.

Only the doors on the Jeep have a body gap so stamping has no real radical changes. Can you say PROFIT!!! Same Profile since 1941. Anyone know of an American car with the same profile that has gone that long. Maybe pickup trucks do, but cars don't.

It saddens me to say this, but the Jeep brand keeps moving away from me.

The Jeep brand increasingly looks and feels European, down to the multitude of electrical problems. The straight face with which Jeep now charges stupid amounts of money for features that most automakers give you for free, is precisely what I used to hate about buying a European vehicle.

The reason Jeep has started slapping American flags on its vehicles is because they know that they stopped behaving like an American automaker years ago.

 

[Old Jeeper]

It saddens me to say this, but the Jeep brand keeps moving away from me.

The Jeep brand increasingly looks and feels European, down to the multitude of electrical problems. The straight face with which Jeep now charges stupid amounts of money for features that most automakers give you for free, is precisely what I used to hate about buying a European vehicle.

The reason Jeep has started slapping American flags on its vehicles is because they know that they stopped behaving like an American automaker years ago.

Page 2, the rest of the story:
What has taken place is that Jeep was a Bastard son no one really wanted in the corp stable because it did make a lot of money, but it was most likely the most PROFITABLE vehicle made in the US, its just that they did not sell many.

So the Bean counters said KILL IT OFF you are only selling 25k a year. Every company that has owned Jeep has talked about dropping it. In fact, I was involved with a group of investors in Dallas, and when MB bought Chrysler, Jeep was put on the chopping block. We were discussing buying from MB, it would have been cheap.

At this time the BIg 3 were chopping lines, Pontiac, Olds, and Saturn just to name a few. But when Fiat stepped in and bought Chrysler from MB everything changed. The CEO running Fiat was smart VERY smart. Ferrari, Lambo, and Maserati have no problem selling cars that make BIG profit, but very few in qty. Jeep FIT that model, low volume HIGH profit per unit.

Well like Ferrari and the other exotics they just keep pushing their price tag up and up until resistance is met. When it comes to US automobile loyalty, 2 cars, Corvette & Jeep. Owners are repeat owners, I have bought 17 IIRC since my first ordered Jeep in 84..

So what is happening is we are being treated like Ferrari owners. It LOOKS the same since 1941. This is a HOOT, selling a car that has not had a RADICAL profile change since 1941...NOW you know why Fiat loves our Jeeps.

Jeep is as far as I know the only car that is an ICON and its NOT easy to be classified as an ICON. Other ICONS are Coke, XEROX, Kleenex and I am sure there are more.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Depends on what you mean of ease of modding. Considering if you want to wheel anything over a 33" tire on a current Taco you need to chop the body mounts I wouldn't call that easy. Its what pushed me over the edge to get a JLR over the Taco Off-Road

I nominate you for the Golden Hammer Award of the day...because you NAILED IT!

Jeep WROTE the book on 4 WD, and off-road, the Jeep is built to go OFF ROAD, the rest are wannabes, they stab it, hit and miss, try and cry.

Toyota, after WWII and we occupied Japan, we GAVE them the rights to the Jeep and its drive train so they could get back into manufacturing. What did they call it? FJ the only real competitor to Jeep is an F J and now you know why.

 

[RAMSTEEL]

It's so funny to hear comments about Jeep pushing me away and getting stuff for free, etc. etc. You can either embed costs in the price tag or show it as a line item. The jeep is a potato head of vehicles with endless combos that make it unique. I crack up every time a model comes out like the Beachcomber or high tide "limited"...decals and different options. Jeep has mastered the ability to sell these not-so-different models to consumers. You assemble your potato head your way

I have a nice-to-drive vehicle for long hauls but every time I want to run an errand, head to the beach, or just get out, we take the jeep...sometimes without the doors and top back. Nothing like it and it's like actually driving something instead of being on autopilot. Most vehicles are so nice they no longer feel fun. I got rid of a couple of jeeps only to come right back to buy another one and then another one (392 is just a blast to drive).

It's just a vehicle, drive what makes you happy.

 

[aldo98229]

Sergio Marchionne was NOT a very smart CEO.

Among other things, he was behind the disastrous return of Fiat to North America, the disappointing relaunch of Alfa Romeo; he pushed Dodge and Chrysler brands into dead-ends, and whether consciously or not, he made Jeep FCA’s “mainstream” brands. Marchionne thought that adding three rows of seats and a Jeep grille onto everything would make it sell

Jeep is the “fun, freedom and adventure” brand; it cannot not be a “mainstream”. Volume brands like Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, need to be dull, familiar, practical, and yes reliable and safe.

Turning Jeep into one of FCA’s volume brands is like your doctor telling to eat nothing but ice cream and cookies so that you get to live until you are 90. It just ain’t gonna happen.

 

[aldo98229]

It's so funny to hear comments about Jeep pushing me away and getting stuff for free, etc. etc. You can either embed costs in the price tag or show it as a line item. The jeep is a potato head of vehicles with endless combos that make it unique. I crack up every time a model comes out like the Beachcomber or high tide "limited"...decals and different options. Jeep has mastered the ability to sell these not-so-different models to consumers. You assemble your potato head your way

I have a nice-to-drive vehicle for long hauls but every time I want to run an errand, head to the beach, or just get out, we take the jeep...sometimes without the doors and top back. Nothing like it and it's like actually driving something instead of being on autopilot. Most vehicles are so nice they no longer feel fun. I got rid of a couple of jeeps only to come right back to buy another one and then another one (392 is just a blast to drive).

It's just a vehicle, drive what makes you happy.

Jeep never charged extra for things like vinyl seats, paint color or thicker glass. That’s the kind of ridiculous behavior German automakers have long been known for.

JL offers five different sets of fenders, three or four different types of turn signals, five different grilles, etc. None of which 99% buyers can even tell apart, resulting in unnecessary complexity, higher costs, with little discernible benefit to anyone.

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