Sun Shade What a Difference

[Remorseless]

We don't do parades, but I did have to take off the mini gun.

Without your mini gun, what will you do about the bears?!?!

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[Eleven71Design]

My dad developed skin cancer as someone who would often lay out for extended periods of time floating in their pool to unwind. It does happen. Science has proven that extended exposure to uv rays from the sun can cause skin cancer. It's not really a debatable fact.

Science currently is also says the Jab worked, A breakfast of frosted flakes is better than bacon and eggs , Sugar was healthier than red meat because red meat caused high cholesterol, all of which are disproven and investigations showed people and the Govt were paid off.

Current "Medical" advise was also "not up for debate" when people died for "Unknown" reasons after taking said advise. Debating things is how science works. Nothing is rock solid and when new evidence emerges, Science changes.

Current scientific research shows people who are exposed to less sunlight or wear sunglasses also have more eye issues. Eye exposure to sunlight also helps head damaged eyes. This is new data coming out.

**Cancer institutions make their money from selling a treatment, not from curing people. Use your sunscreen, look up the ingredients and see how much that is known to cause cancer but hey, the sun is the problem.

 

[BetterThanMine]

Science currently is also says the Jab worked, A breakfast of frosted flakes is better than bacon and eggs , Sugar was healthier than red meat because red meat caused high cholesterol, all of which are disproven and investigations showed people and the Govt were paid off.

Current "Medical" advise was also "not up for debate" when people died for "Unknown" reasons after taking said advise. Debating things is how science works. Nothing is rock solid and when new evidence emerges, Science changes.

Current scientific research shows people who are exposed to less sunlight or wear sunglasses also have more eye issues. Eye exposure to sunlight also helps head damaged eyes. This is new data coming out.

**Cancer institutions make their money from selling a treatment, not from curing people. Use your sunscreen, look up the ingredients and see how much that is known to cause cancer but hey, the sun is the problem.

Yeah, well people also thought the Small Pox Vaccine would kill them and that jabs cause autism despite the science.

Cancer is what it is. With all the crap in the air, water and ground if youre suseptible to it, youre gonna get it. You cant even buy Chocolate at this point without lead and other heavy metals in it. Then you have fish that are ladened with isotypes and mercury, if you want to avoid that youre looking at antibiotic filled farmed fish causing antibiotics resistance.

At this point it doesnt matter what you do, your being exposed to something. Pick your posion and live until it kills ya.

 

[SlickRicksWilly]

How does the friend with no top factor into this?

I don't know how we got here talking about sunshades, but topless friends are always welcomed with my friends

 

[Remorseless]

I don't know how we got here talking about sunshades, but topless friends are always welcomed with my friends

 

[Blues Fan 30]

Science currently is also says the Jab worked, A breakfast of frosted flakes is better than bacon and eggs , Sugar was healthier than red meat because red meat caused high cholesterol, all of which are disproven and investigations showed people and the Govt were paid off.

Current "Medical" advise was also "not up for debate" when people died for "Unknown" reasons after taking said advise. Debating things is how science works. Nothing is rock solid and when new evidence emerges, Science changes.

Current scientific research shows people who are exposed to less sunlight or wear sunglasses also have more eye issues. Eye exposure to sunlight also helps head damaged eyes. This is new data coming out.

**Cancer institutions make their money from selling a treatment, not from curing people. Use your sunscreen, look up the ingredients and see how much that is known to cause cancer but hey, the sun is the problem.

You're free to believe what you want. As for me, I'm happy to not be getting toasted by the sun at stop lights. I will also continue believing that I am reducing my exposure and chances of getting skin cancer.

 

[Eleven71Design]

You're free to believe what you want. As for me, I'm happy to not be getting toasted by the sun at stop lights. I will also continue believing that I am reducing my exposure and chances of getting skin cancer.

Completely fine, being mid 40s myself, worked outside most my life, been in construction, Family being farmers, bailed hay good part of my life without a shirt on, also lived in a beach area of SoCal for 22 years, have not used sunscreen the majority of that. Zero skin cancer....

This is not evidence that UV does not cause problems but just like you, one's personal experience is never good Evidence.

 

[JesseT]

Sunburn sure but Cancer? Cancer from the sun has increased exponentially since the invention of Sunscreen. Kind of odd. Yet people in rural/remove areas and are outside far more suffer far less from "Sun/Skin" Cancer than people in cities.

There's an explanation for skin cancers initially increasing in the era of sunscreen. Early sunscreens were very effective at blocking UVB, which is the primary frequency range responsible for sunburns, but they were not good at blocking UVA, which also causes the kind of DNA damage that can lead to cancers. The result of this is that people were able to stay in the sun longer because they didn't burn, but that meant they were exposed to UVA for longer also. Modern broad-spectrum sunscreens block both UVA and UVB effectively.

Do you have a source for the rural/urban divide in skin cancers?

 

[Eleven71Design]

There's an explanation for skin cancers initially increasing in the era of sunscreen. Early sunscreens were very effective at blocking UVB, which is the primary frequency range responsible for sunburns, but they were not good at blocking UVA, which also causes the kind of DNA damage that can lead to cancers. The result of this is that people were able to stay in the sun longer because they didn't burn, but that meant they were exposed to UVA for longer also. Modern broad-spectrum sunscreens block both UVA and UVB effectively.

Do you have a source for the rural/urban divide in skin cancers?

Most of the data is very skewed. Where are treatment centers, how many report, a ton of factors that no one really addresses. However, using the basic per 100K people, a lot of maps with basic info show states or countries. Much of that can be skewed by the # of people who live there or travel to treatment centers. Lots of info I have seen shows very little skin cancer in areas like the middle east, Africa, Central/South America. Is this because it is unreported?



From what I have read on profession is a bit more telling. Even the CDC would not specify a lot of information I would consider important like how many had melanoma or another form. Their study basically said there are ways to protect yourself. Bottom line from what I have gathered is that outdoor professions or outdoor cultures have no significant increase in risk of skin cancer than people who are inside. So then the question becomes, what protective measures are being taken from one group vs the other. Very hard to get actual data from many of these.

Many maps show northern states have higher rates per 100k of skin cancer than southern states. Can not be because of sun exposure.

I have also seen studies like, The Real Health Benefits of Getting Some Sun (intermountainhealthcare.org) that claim sun exposure helps heal the skin. Again, I am not claiming you spend all day in the sun naked. But many unaffiliated studies show sun exposure helps your body in many ways.

Another fun one is Yale Medical Is My Sunscreen Safe? > News > Yale Medicine did a study in 2022 and showed about 2400 sunscreens contain ingredients that there are no safe levels of and are known cancer causers. I like most do know people who have died from Cancer but how many factors played into that which are not addressed.

I would trust the sun over a plastic tube made by a company linked to medical insurance, linked to pharmaceutical companies and other entities.

There are plants that have a SPF rating and are far safer than any cream that comes in a plastic tube.

 

[1Evil55]

So with all this science out there, which shade can be kept installed at all times if you wish? One that doesn't need removal to access the latches in the panels?

 

[au176]

So with all this science out there, which shade can be kept installed at all times if you wish? One that doesn't need removal to access the latches in the panels?

My personal semi-scientific observation is that my Alien (front-only) sunshade allows access to the front latches of the soft top AND freedom panels. The rear latches on the freedom panels require some finagling to get at them, but I only do that twice a year- when I switch hard/soft tops. This is all without removing any bungees.

 

[Bbp]

Without your mini gun, what will you do about the bears?!?!

I train them and ride them into battle.

 

[JesseT]

Most of the data is very skewed. Where are treatment centers, how many report, a ton of factors that no one really addresses. However, using the basic per 100K people, a lot of maps with basic info show states or countries. Much of that can be skewed by the # of people who live there or travel to treatment centers. Lots of info I have seen shows very little skin cancer in areas like the middle east, Africa, Central/South America. Is this because it is unreported?



From what I have read on profession is a bit more telling. Even the CDC would not specify a lot of information I would consider important like how many had melanoma or another form. Their study basically said there are ways to protect yourself. Bottom line from what I have gathered is that outdoor professions or outdoor cultures have no significant increase in risk of skin cancer than people who are inside. So then the question becomes, what protective measures are being taken from one group vs the other. Very hard to get actual data from many of these.

Many maps show northern states have higher rates per 100k of skin cancer than southern states. Can not be because of sun exposure.

I have also seen studies like, The Real Health Benefits of Getting Some Sun (intermountainhealthcare.org) that claim sun exposure helps heal the skin. Again, I am not claiming you spend all day in the sun naked. But many unaffiliated studies show sun exposure helps your body in many ways.

Another fun one is Yale Medical Is My Sunscreen Safe? > News > Yale Medicine did a study in 2022 and showed about 2400 sunscreens contain ingredients that there are no safe levels of and are known cancer causers. I like most do know people who have died from Cancer but how many factors played into that which are not addressed.

I would trust the sun over a plastic tube made by a company linked to medical insurance, linked to pharmaceutical companies and other entities.

There are plants that have a SPF rating and are far safer than any cream that comes in a plastic tube.

I would expect reporting bias to factor prominently in the available data (i.e. medical care may be on average less available in less-developed/more agricultural countries). Population differences likely play a strong role as well. Melanin provides protection from UV, so I'd expect areas with more melanated populations to have lower rates of skin cancers, all else being equal. This could explain some of the differences in the data from Africa, South/Central America, and the Middle East, as well as the Southern US vs. the Northern US. I'd also wonder how snowbirds factor in (usually retirees who live in northern states but winter in Florida/Arizona/etc.) Are their cancers reported in their states of residence, or state of diagnosis?

Issues with data quality aside, my general belief is that full sun exposure is fine for short periods. For longer periods of exposure, protective barriers/clothes would be the preferred approach, with titanium or zinc oxide based sunscreens as second-line, and generally avoiding petrochemical sunscreens (oxybenzone, octocrylene, etc.) unless there's no other option.

 

[JesseT]

Back to the topic at hand though! Mesh sunshades definitely provide more of the open-air feel than safari mode does. I just installed my spiderwebshades today and they seem like a good compromise.

Edit: On a related note, has anyone come up with a way to quickly take off the spiderwebshades without having to un-bolt the windshield? I was thinking about figuring out some sort of way make it so the front bungees can be detached at the shade side and just left in place under the windshield frame when not in use.

 

[Ratbert]

Lots of info I have seen shows very little skin cancer in areas like the middle east, Africa, Central/South America. Is this because it is unreported?

Possibly, but wouldn't melanin levels be a significant contributor?

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