Short Arms to Long Arms

[zonearc]

I've been wheeling for 25+ years. But, over the last 10+ years I've always wheeled a JKU on tons, Long Arms etc. I have never gone through the transition from short arms to long arms. I just picked up a used 392 and it has an MC "mid arm" (which is just short arms) lift.
I'm wondering if amyone here went to a short arm lift and later did Long Arms and how much of a difference you REALLY saw in performance on and offroad. Was it dramatic? Was it mild? A good Long Arm upgrade kit with brackets, arms and joints is $3500 meaning it's not a small cost so the value has to be there.
Part of the issue here is mental as I'm accustomed to always buying the "best" and I'm feeling like I have something thats junk.
I will rockcrawl this (just spent a weekend at Wolf Caves for example).
Thoughts?

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[JEEP4U]

Long arms makes a big difference. (Night and Day). But, I think you already know that...... from your experience with the JK.

I'm running 40's on one tons with about 5.5 inches of lift.

 

[zonearc]

Honestly, I think I feel it on and offroad. I can stuff tires, but I didn't feel as much down travel and so it felt like it had more trouble on some of the challenging/technical stuff. On road it just doesn't feel as stable.

Sucks. Lots of additional cash to spend.

 

[word302]

@Roky

 

[Roky]

I’m running the Rock Krawler Adventure X long arm kit with the 3 link rear… Absolutely love it, there was a significant difference from my RK XFactor short arm kit on and off road…. Smoother over bumps a lot less effort wheeling, no rear steer, no clunking, clanking associated with short arms and long travel shocks……

 

[zonearc]

Thank you. So that's it. Need $5000 between the lift, alignment, etc. Thanks all.

 

[tactical328]

Running EVOs long arm, don't buy that one. The frame brackets are the best I think from a clearance and packaging standpoint but the rest of the kit is janky and poorly engineered, also missing hardware bla bla bla the typical evo shit.

But long arms are alot nicer from an articulation standpoint especially with the 5link binding, it'll take some tweaking to get everything moving correctly but youll have a lot more travel than a short arm before you run into hard parts.

 

[JEEP4U]

Mike,
You could also go Teraflex RT4 long arm. I went with the RT4 long arm with no shocks or track bars. RockJock has great track bars. I chose Fox Factory series 2.5 DSC Remote Res shocks. I have been running this for three years. I utilize it for both off highway trails and overlanding.

 

[zonearc]

So I have MCs 4.5" coils, their trackball and drag link, Falcon 3 shocks etc. My hope is just to pickup a long arm upgrade kit for now to save some money and keep the steering, shocks and coils. It looks like with a few vendors like IRO, Teraflex, etc I can get away with just the brackets and arms around $3100. Once installed I'll need to get it aligned though at a 4x4 shop do we can adjust the arms properly. Most around here charge $500 to do that.

I would consider using MCs long arm upgrade kit if it wasn't for the fact that it's almost $800 more than everyone else's for literally no reason.

 

[SoK66]

I've been wheeling for 25+ years. But, over the last 10+ years I've always wheeled a JKU on tons, Long Arms etc. I have never gone through the transition from short arms to long arms. I just picked up a used 392 and it has an MC "mid arm" (which is just short arms) lift.
I'm wondering if amyone here went to a short arm lift and later did Long Arms and how much of a difference you REALLY saw in performance on and offroad. Was it dramatic? Was it mild? A good Long Arm upgrade kit with brackets, arms and joints is $3500 meaning it's not a small cost so the value has to be there.
Part of the issue here is mental as I'm accustomed to always buying the "best" and I'm feeling like I have something thats junk.
I will rockcrawl this (just spent a weekend at Wolf Caves for example).
Thoughts?

My JKUR started as a full arms & track bars TF 3" kit w/35s. I quickly increased to 4" & 37s. A few years later I had it converted to their long arm. Did it improve things? On highway ride quality and stability, certainly. On trail there was a certain stability improvement. The flex factor didn't change because I didn't increase shock travel. I later added TF's Fox reservoir units. With their Speed Bump bump stops I can travel at much higher speeds on the trail, not that I would.

Frankly, given the expense and complication of the setup I would not do it again unless I planned to run 40s. IMHO you gain virtually all the "low hanging fruit" advantages with simple front drop brackets.

 

[Trigger-Rubi]

Just went from MC 3.5 short to MC long arm. No other updates other than long arms and skids to accommodate. So on road I am noticing little to no change.. First real off-road test later this month.
Image long is no big change until you get into 4+ inches of lift.
No change in the amount of flex. Shock limited. Should flex with less strain but not real noticeable from drivers seat.

 

[zonearc]

So, this past weekend I put my short arms to the test at Wolf Caves Offroad Park in Central TX, and I was 100% limited by shocks. Long arms will not get me any more "droop". I was sort of thinking it might give me a feeling of more stability but the more I think about it, I'm not sure anything will change at low speeds. I thought maybe at higher speeds.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I've been wheeling for 25+ years. But, over the last 10+ years I've always wheeled a JKU on tons, Long Arms etc. I have never gone through the transition from short arms to long arms. I just picked up a used 392 and it has an MC "mid arm" (which is just short arms) lift.
I'm wondering if amyone here went to a short arm lift and later did Long Arms and how much of a difference you REALLY saw in performance on and offroad. Was it dramatic? Was it mild? A good Long Arm upgrade kit with brackets, arms and joints is $3500 meaning it's not a small cost so the value has to be there.
Part of the issue here is mental as I'm accustomed to always buying the "best" and I'm feeling like I have something thats junk.
I will rockcrawl this (just spent a weekend at Wolf Caves for example).
Thoughts?

I see you have been around for 25 years, well so have I, and a lot more. I thought the Long Arm was dead and now with the JL it's come back alive as if it is some kind of magic potion! I doubt it going to work any better today than it did on TJs back then.

That said they have come out with a Mid Length, there I can see some benefit.

Here is what I can tell you: For years leading up to 2002 I wheeled all the US when I could if I could from Maine to Wash state, to FFl and to Cali. Most of this was mildly modified, all terrain tires, larger size, some tuning kits, exhaust mods minor lift as my jeep was my primary mover. Almost all my wheeling was on my own, as I traveled a lot in my job and I drove when possible rather than flying...

Then in 2002 I took delivery of my Rubicon in Aug and I had sold my company and it was full time wheeling until 2011. I had moved to Scottsdale AZ to be more centrally located Texas - Cali & Utah - Mexico...that was full time.

I can say as much time as I had in Moab on the 7++ trails that I led runs I never had to struggle to keep up with any Long Arm...any line they took so could I. So IMO for a LA to be of benefit, they got to outwheel me and they did not.

Perhaps it was my Seat time that gave me the edge and where I really learned the ropes of wheeling was driving the Battlefield of I Corp-DMZ in Vietnam trying to dodge bullets, VC and NVA...must have worked as I am still alive.

My guess is your skill set after 25 years a LA is NOT going to help you.

 

[zonearc]

From a suspension geometry standpoint, long arms and track bar position should lead to a better roll center and a better overall feel at high speed. At the end of the day, "travel" is limited by two things: shock length and binding. If a "short arm" doesn't bind, and you keep the same shock length, then nothing should change from short arms to long arms in terms of rockcrawling.

What I wasn't sure of is if I'm just not seeing bind in the driver's seat, and if long arms are providing a substantial improvement at speed on a JL. JL short arm lengths are longer than older Jeeps, and so my thought is that people may be holding something against JL "short arms" from legacy applications.

For example, did you know a factory TJ control arm was 15" and a JL is 23.9"? That means a JL has a 9" longer control arm from the factory. The Metal cloak short arms are 24 5/8 making them almost an inch longer than the factory arms to compensate for lift height (that's why they call them a mid arm).
Funny thing is, TJ "long arms" varied from 16" to 32", so they were all over the place and the average was the length of the JL's short arms! So, you could argue that from a comparative standpoint, a JL has "long arms" compared to a TJ =)

That's why I want to know if there's an ACTUAL benefit. Concrete facts that you couldn't flex as far, or there's a difference in high speed drivability. Funny thing is a bunch of people disagree here and that concerns me. It concerns me because that could mean that you're trying to convince yourself it made a difference because you spent $4000 more on those arms.

 

[chevymitchell]

Running EVOs long arm, don't buy that one. The frame brackets are the best I think from a clearance and packaging standpoint but the rest of the kit is janky and poorly engineered, also missing hardware bla bla bla the typical evo shit.

But long arms are alot nicer from an articulation standpoint especially with the 5link binding, it'll take some tweaking to get everything moving correctly but youll have a lot more travel than a short arm before you run into hard parts.

I have the EVO long arm and it has been fantastic. Lol.

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