Sahara The Luxury Model?....Almost

Quasimodo

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I totally agree with this post. Our 2016 Jeep Cherokee has more options than the Sahara and was much cheaper. I have gone to Jeep dealers in the past and discussed pricing of a Wrangler and they didn't seem to want to budge much off of MSRP. We got our Cherokee for 20% off of MSRP, but I can't imagine a dealer doing that on a Wrangler. Probably because they don't feel there is much of a competition in the market place - something that probably prevents them from adding such options at a lower price point and that I hope will change with the release of the Ford Bronco. Right now I am looking at other options like the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro and the Chevy Colorado ZR2. Both trucks have offroading capability and more options, but are at least $6k cheaper. Maybe that will be my leverage to get a better price on a Wrangler in the future....





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ThirtyOne

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I totally agree with this post. Our 2016 Jeep Cherokee has more options than the Sahara and was much cheaper. I have gone to Jeep dealers in the past and discussed pricing of a Wrangler and they didn't seem to want to budge much off of MSRP. We got our Cherokee for 20% off of MSRP, but I can't imagine a dealer doing that on a Wrangler. Probably because they don't feel there is much of a competition in the market place - something that probably prevents them from adding such options at a lower price point and that I hope will change with the release of the Ford Bronco. Right now I am looking at other options like the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro and the Chevy Colorado ZR2. Both trucks have offroading capability and more options, but are at least $6k cheaper. Maybe that will be my leverage to get a better price on a Wrangler in the future....
If you already got everything you wanted in your Cherokee for 20% off MSRP why are you looking at other vehicles?
 

Sean L

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I totally agree with this post. Our 2016 Jeep Cherokee has more options than the Sahara and was much cheaper. I have gone to Jeep dealers in the past and discussed pricing of a Wrangler and they didn't seem to want to budge much off of MSRP. We got our Cherokee for 20% off of MSRP, but I can't imagine a dealer doing that on a Wrangler. Probably because they don't feel there is much of a competition in the market place - something that probably prevents them from adding such options at a lower price point and that I hope will change with the release of the Ford Bronco. Right now I am looking at other options like the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro and the Chevy Colorado ZR2. Both trucks have offroading capability and more options, but are at least $6k cheaper. Maybe that will be my leverage to get a better price on a Wrangler in the future....
If I had found a TRD Pro for less than 40 grand I might have gotten it. I think in my area they think Toyotas are made of platinum and thus mark up from the MSRP as such.
 

Quasimodo

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If you already got everything you wanted in your Cherokee for 20% off MSRP why are you looking at other vehicles?
I have a 2012 Nissan Sentra with only 42k miles on it that I would like trade in for a Wrangler. A Sentra isn't a fun vehicle by any means and is not viable for our family long-term. Would much prefer a Wrangler for our camping/beach going/offroading needs.
 

Quasimodo

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Sean L

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ThirtyOne

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I have a 2012 Nissan Sentra with only 42k miles on it that I would like trade in for a Wrangler. A Sentra isn't a fun vehicle by any means and is not viable for our family long-term. Would much prefer a Wrangler for our camping/beach going/offroading needs.
Ok. Good luck. You can get great deals on the JK right now but would probably not be happy with the features. The JL has caught up significantly in that department but they are expensive unless you really value what makes them unique.
 

aug0211

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I get what you're saying, but all of the luxuries that are standard on the Sahara are standard on the Rubicon as well, so it seems more of a linear than diverging path to me.

The Selectrac transfer case doesn't do anything to add or subtract any actual offroad performance, as its the same transfer case with an automatic shifting capability. No difference in gear ratios.
Full time 4WD capability without transfer case shifting = luxury option for a family mall crawler where wife or young drivers may use the vehicle in adverse conditions.

4WD capability is there on both trims, yes - but the luxury of not having to shift into it only exists on the Sahara trim.

Transfer case is a huge deal on this vehicle. Differentiation of available options in this is huge for this vehicle.

To your point, this is not about off-road capabilities. Off-road, the Rubicon is the better option. The key here - this really is the key! - is that the Sahara is now the better ON-road option. Hence, divergence.

One trim is better on-road, and the other trim is better off-road. This is a fork in the road.
 

Gecko-JKU

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Jeep has already stated that they looked at the rain sensing wipers and found some interference issues with the fold down windshield during development. The alternative would be to remove the fold down feature from the Sahara. However, there are many people who buy Sahara's for the features and mod the hell out of them for off-road that may even use the fold down feature now that its easier to do. Removing the folding windshield would increase costs due to the separate body manufacturing processes required now.

The other factor is that the Wrangler classically appeared to use only one wiring harness across all trims. On the JK's this was great for regular Sport owners, as they could just add missing features to their Jeeps. Its a "tried and true" process for the Chrysler and I doubt they would switch for the JL's. Which would mean they would have to add wiring to the harness, connectors, and programming for power seats to all Wranglers even if they didn't add the actual functionality. FCA may have seen this as a cost they weren't willing to absorb (or pass on to every Wrangler owner) at the time.
 

Sean L

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Full time 4WD capability without transfer case shifting = luxury option for a family mall crawler where wife or young drivers may use the vehicle in adverse conditions.

4WD capability is there on both trims, yes - but the luxury of not having to shift into it only exists on the Sahara trim.

Transfer case is a huge deal on this vehicle. Differentiation of available options in this is huge for this vehicle.
4HI Full isn't viable offroad, in order to lock the differential you still need to move the shift lever to 4 HI and thats no different than the standard transfer case. all that full time does is put spurts of power to the front wheels if your rear wheels slip.

The only difference any transfer case makes in the wrangler lineup is the rock-track case in the rubicon that adds the 4:1 low gear instead of 2.75:1 in the Command-Track and Select-Track.
 

aug0211

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Jeep has already stated that they looked at the rain sensing wipers and found some interference issues with the fold down windshield during development. The alternative would be to remove the fold down feature from the Sahara. However, there are many people who buy Sahara's for the features and mod the hell out of them for off-road that may even use the fold down feature now that its easier to do. Removing the folding windshield would increase costs due to the separate body manufacturing processes required now.

The other factor is that the Wrangler classically appeared to use only one wiring harness across all trims. On the JK's this was great for regular Sport owners, as they could just add missing features to their Jeeps. Its a "tried and true" process for the Chrysler and I doubt they would switch for the JL's. Which would mean they would have to add wiring to the harness, connectors, and programming for power seats to all Wranglers even if they didn't add the actual functionality. FCA may have seen this as a cost they weren't willing to absorb (or pass on to every Wrangler owner) at the time.
^this.
4HI Full isn't viable offroad, in order to lock the differential you still need to move the shift lever to 4 HI and thats no different than the standard transfer case. all that full time does is put spurts of power to the front wheels if your rear wheels slip.

The only difference any transfer case makes in the wrangler lineup is the rock-track case in the rubicon that adds the 4:1 low gear instead of 2.75:1 in the Command-Track and Select-Track.
Again, my focus is the 4WD process ON-road. Superior in the Sahara compared to the Rubicon. Indication of divergence in that there is a better choice for off-road vs. on-road use. No longer a strict “one is better than the other” scenario. It now depends on the use.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/selec-trac-full-time-4x4-4wd-system-discussions.1267/

Lots of great explanation in the above linked thread.

A decent summary/excerpt post from the above thread (also quoted below; emphasis my own):
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-4wd-system-discussions.1267/page-2#post-7269

Re:Selec-Trac (Sahara only option):
Yes, it can be used on dry pavement. No binding, the transfer case connection stays open on these, like a non LSD axle, while in full time mode. You can still select "part time" 4WD, locking the T-case. In this age of electronic traction control, Select-Trac is a VERY good solution to winter driving. I say that because with an open T-case and open differentials, all power can end up going to just one wheel (bad), but with traction control, the system will stop any run-away spinning wheel and balance drive power to other wheels (good).

The Select-Trac system is really the best system for highway or local driving in snow and ice. Since the T-case is an open diff, it allows all wheels to spin at different speeds. With a locked T-case, the wheels of the each axle aren't able to spin independently, so you are are basically in a controlled slide on every corner.
 

PavementWarrior

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When are the 2 wheel drive Sahara's coming out? With its 2 star reliability and terrible fit and finish I can really imagine country clubs full of them...

I would like the 2door wrangler to stay back a year or 2 on all features till all the problems are worked out, and these new Trust fund wagons look dead on to do the dirty work (hey they gotta see dirt somehow!)
 
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Sean L

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^this.

Again, my focus is the 4WD process ON-road. Superior in the Sahara compared to the Rubicon. Indication of divergence in that there is a better choice for off-road vs. on-road use. No longer a strict “one is better than the other” scenario. It now depends on the use.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/selec-trac-full-time-4x4-4wd-system-discussions.1267/
And I get what you're saying, but automatically calling it a mall crawler because it has a full time transfer case is pointless. A Sahara is likely to see just as much time on a trail as it is on road with either of the two available transfer cases. If I never intended on taking my Jeep off road I would have gotten a simple Cherokee or Compass that wasn't even trail rated and spent less on it than I did my Wrangler.
 

aug0211

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And I get what you're saying, but automatically calling it a mall crawler because it has a full time transfer case is pointless. A Sahara is likely to see just as much time on a trail as it is on road with either of the two available transfer cases. If I never intended on taking my Jeep off road I would have gotten a simple Cherokee or Compass that wasn't even trail rated and spent less on it than I did my Wrangler.
Oh, I agree. I’m not arguing that a Sahara is exclusively a mall crawler. Quite the opposite!

I am just saying the Sahara is no longer “below” the Rubicon. It’s now different, but equal. Just depends on your use.

Rubi will do fine on the road. Sahara will do fine off-road. Jeep now offers an optimized Wrangler depending on your needs - which I love. And strengthens the case for continued divergence and offering a more and more luxurious experience in the Sahara (eventually, perhaps even at the expense of some off-road capabilities).

Ultimately, my point is I’m sick of people sticking their noses in the air at these sorts of features. They make sense for me and I would gladly pay for them. An extra couple hundred for cooler seats - great. Loss of fold down windshield to get auto wipers? Yep.
 

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Completely agree with this.

One note though is some of those features mentioned were attempted but ultimately unsuccessful from what I've read. Mainly the front sensors and windshield wiper sensors. The explanation was that they couldn't have those and a fold down windshield. Which when you look at the location on most other cars is right behind the rear view mirror so i guess that makes sense.

That said maybe they could've found another place for that stuff, I don't know, but just wanted to note the reasons I've seen for some of these feautures.
 

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