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Sahara The Luxury Model?....Almost

Sean L

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We need to dispel the notion that the Sahara is somehow automatically a "Mall Crawler" and also that somehow a Sport is more capable when the only difference is in comfort items. My Sahara has the same transfer case as the sport, Dana 44 axles, Goodyear Wrangler A/Ts and a limited slip diff. so it is just as good off road as a sport with the same equipment. It is more capable than a sport that lacks such options that the LSD package provides.

The Sahara is just a middle trim level, and people often forget you can get a Rubicon with just as many plush luxuries as any Sahara.

What makes a Rubicon a Rubicon is the addition of the 4.10 Axles, locking differentials, Rock Track transfer case, etc to what the Sahara has.

What makes a Sahara a Sahara is the addition of the niceties to what the Sport has...
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aug0211

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We need to dispel the notion that the Sahara is somehow automatically a "Mall Crawler" and also that somehow a Sport is more capable when the only difference is in comfort items. My Sahara has the same transfer case as the sport, Dana 44 axles, Goodyear Wrangler A/Ts and a limited slip diff. so it is just as good off road as a sport with the same equipment. It is more capable than a sport that lacks such options that the LSD package provides.

The Sahara is just a middle trim level, and people often forget you can get a Rubicon with just as many plush luxuries as any Sahara.

What makes a Rubicon a Rubicon is the addition of the 4.10 Axles, locking differentials, Rock Track transfer case, etc to what the Sahara has.

What makes a Sahara a Sahara is the addition of the niceties to what the Sport has...
True, though I see the Sahara and Rubicon more of branches off of the Sport (both a step up from the Sport). Theyā€™re different tracks - one is for hardcore off-roading
and one is for mall crawlers like myself.

With the introduction of the Sahara-only Selec-Trac, the two are now officially branched in that itā€™s not just that the Rubicon has upgrades over the Sahara - the Sahara now also has a differentiating offering that is not available on the Rubicon. I expect that this is a strategic shift and weā€™ll see continued differentiation of both trims as ā€œsiblingā€ trims opposed to the historical approach of the Rubi being a step up over the Sahara.

To me, this is acknowledgement from Jeep that there is a different market for Sahara drivers - which is exactly what this thread is addressing, as well.
 

555Redhorse

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For any of you in program management, one of the issues in managing a successful program is trying to curb 'requirements creep'. In other words, you can always add "just one more thing". The new JL model has more re-engineering over the previous model than what most people like us can realize. Insane amounts of engineering. At some point, the company has to go with an approved design due to the 3 pillars of management which are schedule, cost, and performance. They have deadlines (schedule) and cost considerations. We already know that Jeep is struggling with the parts integration for options on the build (LED, premium soft top, colored hard top, etc.) They also are struggling with other logistics (transportation such as rail *Marion OH anyone?) I think the further addition of options is where we start getting into future special trims (hard rock, freedom, willys, etc) That gives them time to add to a stable process, not one that is currently unstable.
 
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ThirtyOne

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Expect to see some of these features on a mid-cycle refresh if they see good numbers on things like the safety package and the power top. I would actually like to see them limit some features to the Sahara to distinguish it more but it seems they want to make every option available to Rubicon buyers which I am sure those buyers appreciate.
 

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Sean L

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True, though I see the Sahara and Rubicon more of branches off of the Sport (both a step up from the Sport). Theyā€™re different tracks - one is for hardcore off-roading
and one is for mall crawlers like myself.

With the introduction of the Sahara-only Selec-Trac, the two are now officially branched in that itā€™s not just that the Rubicon has upgrades over the Sahara - the Sahara now also has a differentiating offering that is not available on the Rubicon. I expect that this is a strategic shift and weā€™ll see continued differentiation of both trims as ā€œsiblingā€ trims opposed to the historical approach of the Rubi being a step up over the Sahara.

To me, this is acknowledgement from Jeep that there is a different market for Sahara drivers - which is exactly what this thread is addressing, as well.
I get what you're saying, but all of the luxuries that are standard on the Sahara are standard on the Rubicon as well, so it seems more of a linear than diverging path to me.

The Selectrac transfer case doesn't do anything to add or subtract any actual offroad performance, as its the same transfer case with an automatic shifting capability. No difference in gear ratios.
 

RisingEagle

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I agree with a lot of this thread (other than the "true-Jeepers" that come out every time).

The Sahara - for the new guy just getting into the Jeep world - appears to be targeted at the "I want something that looks offroadish and could do some light trails, but I don't want a minivan or soccer-mom-suv" daily driver type people. That, by the way, is a HUGE market; just look at the number of SUVs out there (GMC Acadia, Chevy Traverse, Ford Edge - the list goes forever). If Jeep could get into that market full-force - well, it's a huge market. I suspect it's WAY larger than the "I need something that is hard-core rugged beat-on-rocks crawl-over-everything" crowd

So to me, a Sahara - with it's street-tires, more-plush-than-other-models interior, etc - seems to be targeted at the suv market; not the base-entry (Sport) market, and definitely not the (Rubicon) hard-core off-road market. I mean - for a couple years, didn't a Sahara come with 2WD? I mean, how were those even allowed to be built without a burn-the-factory-down revolt from the "true-Jeepers"? I definitely didn't know, as I was evaluating used Jeeps before deciding to go new, that there were 2WD Jeeps out there - it sort of floored me when I found out - a new guy, not familiar with Jeeps, but I always assumed everything that was Jeep was 4WD

To the whole "balance of features" thing - you're right, the market dictates what gets engineered / included. I think the original point of the OP was that the features missing are not something that requires a lot of evaluation for including or not - they're included in every package on every higher-end ($40k and up) SUV - which is what the Sahara appears to be targeted at. Not having them available is a disadvantage in that market.

So when Sally Snowflake is looking for her next new SUV, and is trying to decide between a GMC Acadia and a Sahara Jeep (and wants to bling it out with 37s and pink rims), the options she really wants - the power seats, the rain-sensor wipers - are on one vehicle but not the other. It will affect her choice of vehicle. Maybe the large pink tires will be enough to sway her, maybe not.

not that an Acadia and a Sahara are the same - not even close. But to Sally - she thinks Jeeps look cool. And it has 4 doors for the kids, looks a little more offroady than a SUV, seems to be capable for when it snows and is yucky out. But - it doesn't have power seats, and oh by the way Sally lives in Arizona, and her past 3 vehicles have all had air-cooled seats. She does NOT want to be stuck to a hot leather seat all summer.

Does any of the above affect me and my purchase? absolutely not. I bought a Jeep to use as an offroad-capable overland expedition vehicle. I intend within the first week of owning it to take it out, bash it through the brush, make sure I get a pinstripe or two on it so I don't freak out about scratching and dinging it up as time goes on. And I chose a Rubicon because of that - the lockers, the Dana-44s, the stock-33s; all the offroad-capable features that are included

BUT - if I was in the market for an SUV-replacement - I would be drawn to other models, because the Jeep is lacking some (what I consider) pretty basic standard-luxury features found in most any other vehicle north of $40k in price.
 

Jdawson4

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QUOTE="ThirtyOne, post: 153144, member: 10291"]Expect to see some of these features on a mid-cycle refresh if they see good numbers on things like the safety package and the power top. I would actually like to see them limit some features to the Sahara to distinguish it more but it seems they want to make every option available to Rubicon buyers which I am sure those buyers appreciate.[/QUOTE]

Honestly for the price of the Rubicon I can't imagine them not allowing every create comfort available in the Sahara for the Rubicon as well
 

Sean L

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[QUOTE="RisingEagle, post: 153165, member: 13627"The Sahara - for the new guy just getting into the Jeep world - appears to be targeted at the "I want something that looks offroadish and could do some light trails, but I don't want a minivan or soccer-mom-suv" daily driver type people. That, by the way, is a HUGE market; just look at the number of SUVs out there (GMC Acadia, Chevy Traverse, Ford Edge - the list goes forever). If Jeep could get into that market full-force - well, it's a huge market. I suspect it's WAY larger than the "I need something that is hard-core rugged beat-on-rocks crawl-over-everything" crowd

So to me, a Sahara - with it's street-tires, more-plush-than-other-models interior, etc - seems to be targeted at the suv market; not the base-entry (Sport) market, and definitely not the (Rubicon) hard-core off-road market. I mean - for a couple years, didn't a Sahara come with 2WD? I mean, how were those even allowed to be built without a burn-the-factory-down revolt from the "true-Jeepers"? I definitely didn't know, as I was evaluating used Jeeps before deciding to go new, that there were 2WD Jeeps out there - it sort of floored me when I found out - a new guy, not familiar with Jeeps, but I always assumed everything that was Jeep was 4WD[/QUOTE]

Just a few comments.

Jeeps competetion for the SUVs you mentioned isn't the Wrangler, its the Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Compass and Renegade. All of those are crossover models that come in a variety of drive types from 2WD basic daily drivers to full time 4WD with some decent off road capabilities (not wrangler level)

The 2WD JK you've mentioned was both Sport and Sahara models, and I test drove a Sport 2WD many years ago, 3.8 V6, 4 speed auto, and it didn't ring true to the Wrangler, and didn't sell well at all.

I'm assuming the street tires you mentioned are the All Season tires that come standard on both the Sport and Sahara without the limited slip differential. On both Sport S and Sahara those tires are replaced with All Terrains when you get the Limited Slip Diff.
 

Sean L

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QUOTE="ThirtyOne, post: 153144, member: 10291"]Expect to see some of these features on a mid-cycle refresh if they see good numbers on things like the safety package and the power top. I would actually like to see them limit some features to the Sahara to distinguish it more but it seems they want to make every option available to Rubicon buyers which I am sure those buyers appreciate.
Honestly for the price of the Rubicon I can't imagine them not allowing every create comfort available in the Sahara for the Rubicon as well[/QUOTE]
They do, every luxury item from the Sahara is available on the Rubicon.
 

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Sean L

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Joe Paul

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Driving my JL Sahara home today, which is fantastic by the way, I was wondering why Jeep didnā€™t finish it. The Sahara is positioned as the luxury model of the Wrangler lineup. Well Itā€™s as close to what you get or should expect from a Wrnagler in terms of luxury.

But Iā€™m wondering why didnā€™t Jeep finish it. The JL now has proximity entry. Parking sensors and camera, blind spot monitoring, a great infotainment centre, nav, CarPlay, acoustic front glass, heated seats and steering wheel, dual climate control, a power sliding top for those who donā€™t want to pull the top off, full led lighting, leather seats and dash, Uconnect remote start from an iPhone. All great and luxuriousish stuff.

So why miss a few extras that are less technical or basic adds for most other cars that have been available for years.

Why no power seats with memory. Hold on Iā€™m talking about the Sahara not the Rubi or Sport. The Sahara has a leather dash and if you get the power top you canā€™t remove it. So almost all Saharaā€™s are mall crawlers and most of them will not have the interior hosed down after being in the mud. Power memory seats are available in the most basic cars so why.

Why only parking sensors for the rear. They put sensors in the rear bumper why not the front bumper. So does the statement that the bumpers get changed hold water. Well no both bumpers get changed on Wranglers. There are sensors in the rear bumper so why not sensors for the front too.

Why no auto wiper sensors. Proximity entry and blind spot monitoring but not auto wipers? They are so everyday now. I have had them in my vehicles since the early 2000's.

These are basic and not expensive so the price would not be drastically effected. Plus they could be options so therefore purchased only if wanted.


I do not understand why they went 97% and stopped short. In my opinion it wouldnā€™t change what the Wrangler is supposed to be. Not more than proximity, blind spot monitoring and remote star has anyway.

Am I missing something?
I bought a Sahara because of the options available, that I wanted. A little luxury in a Jeep still capable of going off road and having fun. Power seats are fine in other 'Mall crawlers' but something I can do without. I still like the option of upgrading for off road and having the luxury option while on. It's a Jeep. My opinion.
 

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Honestly for the price of the Rubicon I can't imagine them not allowing every create comfort available in the Sahara for the Rubicon as well
Well apparently Jeep agrees with you.
 

Sean L

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They do, every luxury item from the Sahara is available on the Rubicon.
Well apparently Jeep agrees with you.[/QUOTE]

something is funky with the reply format right now.
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