Oil Change Frequency

[Borderline Jeep]

I average about 12,000 miles a year. To get to 200k miles, it is a 16 year owner ship.
The extra cost of $650 or $1,000 over the 16 year span is insignificant.

I agree!

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[TheRaven]

BS...a UOA tests the actual oil and gives a direct read-out. The iOLM is doing nothing more than estimating. If that works for you, fine, but you will not convince me it is more accurate than an actual test of the oil.

I didn't say it's more accurate. But it's more than good enough. If analyzing your oil helps you sleep at night then go for it. But you aren't getting anything more than a good nights sleep out of the extra time and money you are spending.

 

[ag4ever]

Take a 200,000 mile ownership for example and assume you do your own oil change:
$40 oil + $10 oil filter = $50 total

Every 5,000 mile
200,000/5,000 = 40 oil changes
$50 x 40 = $2,000

Every 7,500 mile
200,000/7,500 = 27 oil changes
$50 x 27 = $1,350

Every 10,000 mile
200,000/10,000 = 20 oil changes
$50 x 20 = $1,000

I change my oil every 5,000 miles. No guess work no confusion. Engine runs clean, I sleep better, and life is good.

I average about 12,000 miles a year. To get to 200k miles, it is a 16 year owner ship.
The extra cost of $650 or $1,000 over the 16 year span is insignificant.

3.6 long block +/- $5,000

https://www.moparaccessorygiant.com...ler-jeep-ram-3-6-engine-long-block-r8259595ab

2.0T long block +/- $7,000

https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar-long-block-engine-68273636ca

I have no issue ‘wasting’ $1,000 in 200,000 miles of ownership for peace of mind that I won’t need to replace the engine due to oil related issues.

 

[Vinman]

My Jeep gets an oil change, 5 tire rotation, all fluid level check and door latch lube every 3,000 miles.

I use the money I saved on the labour cost installing my winch, skid plates, lift kit, tire carrier, airbags, OBA, Rhino roof rack, home made flat floor platform, off-road lights, etc to fund the excessive oil change frequency (which I also do myself)

 

[c20040215]

3.6 long block +/- $5,000

https://www.moparaccessorygiant.com...ler-jeep-ram-3-6-engine-long-block-r8259595ab

2.0T long block +/- $7,000

https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar-long-block-engine-68273636ca

I have no issue ‘wasting’ $1,000 in 200,000 miles of ownership for peace of mind that I won’t need to replace the engine due to oil related issues.

Interestingly, 6 cylinder block is cheaper than 4 cylinder block..

To me, its not worth the debate arguing the engineering, oil technologies, or the oil analysis. Plus, it gives you a opportunity to check over components, grease joints, and touch up surface rust etc..

 

[CarbonSteel]

I didn't say it's more accurate. But it's more than good enough. If analyzing your oil helps you sleep at night then go for it. But you aren't getting anything more than a good nights sleep out of the extra time and money you are spending.

What I am getting out of it is factual and accurate data to be able to make informed decisions about my maintenance versus following an estimate from the iOLM. While the iOLM may be "more than good enough" for some, it is not for me and UOAs can predict issues typically before they happen and an iOLM is not going to do that.

There are many things in an OEMs decision tree that are 1000% geared towards cost savings and with most, it not all, anchored in CAFE. The vast majority of the decisions made around maintenance in the JL series are tied to CAFE which is not conducive to long life. I have posted this before...

The fact they are not concerned with longevity and are chasing CAFE is evident from the following design changes (I am certain there are more):

1. Reduction of axle fluid viscosity from Dana's recommendation - from 75W-140 to 75W-90
2. Reduction of axle fluid capacity in the rear axle from the JK series - from 2.375QTs to about 1.6QTs
3. Introduction of a FAD on the front axle
4. Reduction of engine oil capacity from 6QTs to 5QTs
5. Reduction of engine oil viscosity from 5W-30 to xW-20
6. Weight reductions across the board by lightening everything from the engine to the body to the suspension by introducing the maximum amount of plastics and aluminum

 

[Old Jeeper]

Dear Members:
I have a Stick shift 2021 Wrangler Sport Unlimited with about 39,000 Miles.
The dealer had me come in for oil changes every 3000 miles which I did. Going forward is it okay to have the oil changed every 7,000 miles? Had the differential fluid changed at 30,000 miles.
Thanks.
Ramesh

Another Dealer RIP OFF!

Where did the old 3000 mi oil change come from? Back in my day you would be 1 full quart low by 3000 mi for sure! Go any further than that and you might burn up your engine and a LOT of people did.

Back then al engines were built by hand. But there was no CAM, CNC and tools were crude, maybe the guy had an old feeler gage, that would be lucky. They had boxes and pallets of parts, threw them together, maybe a torque wrench, that the last time it had been calibrated the 3 Wise Men did it.

Even NEW cars could burn a quart of oil in 500 miles. To get around that you added Motor Honey or add a quart of 90-110 Wt gear oil to thicken it up. Tolerances were measured 100 ths of an inch and 1/10 of an inch.

Bearings were Babbited metal (Lead, Copper, Tin etc) Babbitt bearings were developed in 1839 and still in use up until the 60's.

What changed and why? Drag racing caught fire and it was a Chevy V8 that rocked the boat and gave people 1 HP per cubic inch of engine. 55 Chevy. was hot, then came 57 Chevy with Fuel Injection and Corvettes putting out more HP per cubic inch and suddenly the Street engineers caught wind of a thing called "Invisible Horsepower" aka Blueprinted engines.

Suddendly Babbit bearing were gone, rpm of a a V8 could hit 6500 rpm, new tooling and design along tolerances starting in the 1000s of an inch and beyond.

Today, cars can go tens of 1000s of miles with out losing even half a quart of oil.

So what are you replacing when you change oil today? Its not the oil, its the ADDITIVES you are chasing. OIL DOES NOT WEAR OUT! Unless it gets burned in an extreme overheated engine.

FOLLOW the mfg recommendations for oil change or if you vehicle lets you know when it time to change follow that.

 

[LARSONEM]

Use your oil life indicator. It monitors how hard you drive, engine temps, distance driven, temps reached, etc. to calculate the life of the oil. It's not just driven from the odometer. When your computer says change it, change it.

Changing it any earlier is just wasting money.

I agree with you to a point. However for those who frequently run off road where the vehicle is subjected to dust and dirt, then the oil change frequency needs to be reevaluated. The oil life monitoring system is a algorithm of engine temperatures, rpm’s, transmission shifts, etc. and really has no ability to monitor dirt and contaminants in the oil, so “how” and “where” the vehicle is used should be considered. Also for those with a low use vehicle, an annual oil change is a must regardless of the percentage of oil life remaining.

 

[TheRaven]

While the iOLM may be "more than good enough" for some, it is not for me...

Ok cool man. I understand...i'm a detailing freak so just like you go way overboard with oil, I go way overboard with cleaning.

 

[Maverick909]

I tend to do mine about 5-6K miles mostly because i do not daily drive my jeep and when i get long drives in its mostly to the trails then a few hours of trails and driving home. 40%-20% left

 

[Vinman]

It would be interesting to see how much of an effect driving in dusty conditions actually impacts oil.
Will a used oil analysis show outside dust and dirt?
Theoretically the oil system is sealed so no outside dirt should ever enter the system.
I’ve never sent a sample in before so have no idea of what is actually contained in the report.

 

[khramesh]

Wow, I never expected this post would have such a health debate.
I learnt so much from these discussions.
Thank you one and all.

 

[00 Trans Ram]

If you have never ran an UOA to understand the actual health of the oil and how much life is remaining, then it is not possible to understand why people go against the engineers and the iOLM which is using an algorithm and is not measuring anything directly related to the oil. In the end, the iOLM is a calculation and estimate of oil life--nothing more and nothing less. It is not measuring the oil or its chemical composition or degradation and therefore is not an absolute.

The general rule of thumb is that <2.0 of Total Base Number (TBN) is the cut-off for oil life. After 5,000 miles on 6 different runs of Rotella Gas Truck, my average TBN was 2.58, yet the iOLM typically stated that I had 40-50% of life remaining. The oil could have likely made it to 7,500 miles, but there is no way that it would still be actively neutralizing combustion by-products at 10,000 miles.

In addition, my 3.6L is an MPI engine which typically does not suffer from dilution, but the 2.0T is a different story. There is no way I would go past 5,000 miles on an oil change on that engine and though I have not had one, I have had other DI engines which diluted the oil driving it thinner which means less protection.

In the end, some folks are good with following the iOLM and OEM recommendations and if that works, then all good, but there are other ways to determine what is actually happening with the oil that are much more accurate and allow you to custom tailor your maintenance plan.

You're not wrong. But, barring any outliers, it won't make an appreciable difference on the age of the vehicle.

What I mean is that engines regularly last 200-300k miles nowadays. Manufacturing tolerances have just gotten so good, computers are so good, etc. It might be that a meticulously maintained motor will last 400k miles, versus 300k for one that does it "by the book".

But what are the chanced you will see that last 100k miles? You might sell it. You will probably get in some kind of accident at least once. Something else could go wrong and fry the motor. If any of these happen, then the "extra" maintenance was all wasted.

 

[CarbonSteel]

You're not wrong. But, barring any outliers, it won't make an appreciable difference on the age of the vehicle.

What I mean is that engines regularly last 200-300k miles nowadays. Manufacturing tolerances have just gotten so good, computers are so good, etc. It might be that a meticulously maintained motor will last 400k miles, versus 300k for one that does it "by the book".

But what are the chanced you will see that last 100k miles? You might sell it. You will probably get in some kind of accident at least once. Something else could go wrong and fry the motor. If any of these happen, then the "extra" maintenance was all wasted.

I don't disagree, but I'm thinking about something a little less catastrophic (especially for a 3.6L), like say the camshaft and rockers. Would a 5K OCI with xW-30 minimize the chance of an issue versus a 10K OCI with xW-20?

 

[Old Dogger]

5000 miles, is a good number!

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