Off-roading with a manual transmission?

[Toycrusher]

I can go either way with manual or auto. both sides have there good and bads. I still like the challenge of the manual transmission with wheeling. thus i do not do " Extreme trails." still running the moderate to hard range.

Precisely. You can make even mild trails technical and exciting based on the lines you choose. Our Jeeps are far more capable than most of us and with a stick you don't need to go extreme to find your own limit. Same reason driving a slow car fast is more fun than a fast car slow.

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[Zuni]

Same here Zuni; I started off in a 3 speed manual FJ40 down here in FL, and drove M151 Jeeps right after I enlisted.

M151 was the 1st Street legal vehicle I was licensed to drive! In AIT late 1976. Never got my driver's license in high school.

 

[Zuni]

I can go either way with manual or auto. both sides have there good and bads. I still like the challenge of the manual transmission with wheeling. thus i do not do " Extreme trails." still running the moderate to hard range.

Ur 100% right the manual is a lot more fun/challenging for off roading! Yeah an auto would take off better on a steep slope with the hill assist but that's where good spotting comes in. Once committed try not to stop

 

[Wabujitsu]

M151 was the 1st Street legal vehicle I was licensed to drive! In AIT late 1976. Never got my driver's license in high school.

Hooah! Thank you for your service!

 

[Zuni]

Hooah! Thank you for your service!

Thank you!

 

[Rodeoflyer]

I can’t tell you how many rock crawling videos I’ve seen with manual Jeeps, where the driver repeatedly stalls the engine on obstacles and has to restart the engine. Also, much of the damage to the drive train (broken drive shafts, etc) happen with manuals. Something to consider.

the fact you CAN break things is what makes the manual so much fun 80% of the time on the street.

 

[Zuni]

I can’t tell you how many rock crawling videos I’ve seen with manual Jeeps, where the driver repeatedly stalls the engine on obstacles and has to restart the engine. Also, much of the damage to the drive train (broken drive shafts, etc) happen with manuals. Something to consider.

Experience and knowing where the clutch starts to engage is key. The breakage would probably come from dumping the clutch. Like I said earlier once committed try not to stop on steep places. If you do have to try to safely use the brakes to back down to a better start off point. As a bonus the brakes on a manual wrangler will last twice as long as an automatics.

 

[hoch]

I'm sorry man, I just don't get this. I had a manual JL and at first I thought the same thing and then I quickly learned why 99% of people use auto off road. The more technical, difficult and challenging an obstacle is the more of a nuisance the stick becomes. And that's with what is probably the best off roading manual version throughout Jeep history. My wake up came when I ran Pritchett Canyon in Moab with the stick. After that trip the Jeep was sold and an auto was bought.

Don’t worry, man. Tesla will soon have an off-road rig with full autonomous crawl option! No more nuisance of turning the wheel and stepping on pedals!

 

[Zuni]

I'm sorry man, I just don't get this. I had a manual JL and at first I thought the same thing and then I quickly learned why 99% of people use auto off road. The more technical, difficult and challenging an obstacle is the more of a nuisance the stick becomes. And that's with what is probably the best off roading manual version throughout Jeep history. My wake up came when I ran Pritchett Canyon in Moab with the stick. After that trip the Jeep was sold and an auto was bought.
[/QUOTE

I'm sorry man, I just don't get this. I had a manual JL and at first I thought the same thing and then I quickly learned why 99% of people use auto off road. The more technical, difficult and challenging an obstacle is the more of a nuisance the stick becomes. And that's with what is probably the best off roading manual version throughout Jeep history. My wake up came when I ran Pritchett Canyon in Moab with the stick. After that trip the Jeep was sold and an auto was bought.

I just like the extra challenge of picking the right gear and using the clutch. I will admit you have to stay in one gear in extreme situations. You don't have the buffering of the converter and the tranny's clutches. My region doesn't have a lot of rock mostly mud and steep hills.

 

[Wabujitsu]

Experience and knowing where the clutch starts to engage is key. The breakage would probably come from dumping the clutch. Like I said earlier once committed try not to stop on steep places. If you do have to try to safely use the brakes to back down to a better start off point. As a bonus the brakes on a manual wrangler will last twice as long as an automatics.

Roger that! I started wheeling back in the early 80s, in a three speed manual FJ40. I learned how to work a clutch and transfer case very quickly. My post you quoted was a PSA for the inexperienced readers.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

I've had no issue with the manual running every trail I could find here in CO, which I would expect is fairly world class. If it exists, you can find it here (or in Moab). Regearing to 5.13 was key once I put 37'' tires on it but the crawl ratio is now around 100:1 in 1st gear and that's good enough for anything I've attempted.

 

[jeepoch]

@dawgvet,

Jed, whether to drive a manual or not is totally up to you. Only you know how you prefer to drive. But I understand your desire for off-road experience input and feedback. There have been other threads on this topic that have gotten rather contentious. It seems to me that for some, it's not pure Jeeping without a clutch pedal. And your an idiot for thinking otherwise.

For the record I've driven a fair part of my 50+ driving years with a manual transmission on a number of vehicles. And of course some of that also with a few automatics scattered along the way. In all honesty, all my really fun jalopies have been with a clutch. But the vast majority have been anything except a Jeep.

My first Wrangler, a 2019 2 Door Sport S was more of the case were it found me. I drove it off the dealership lot in Nov 2019 with less than 900 miles on it. Yes, technically used but because the prior owner returned it due to a cluster issue, they couldn't fix it and she did a lemon law buy-back and exchanged it for a new Sahara.

This dealership sold this vehicle to me for a song because the cluster they replaced kept then blowing 'Headlight Auto Dimming" fault codes. Of course the Sport has no circuitry for that feature. Due to their ineptitude they just wanted this vehicle off their lot and off their books.

It was very easy to repair and this JL has now been the very best daily driver I have ever owned. By far, bar none but I digress.

Unfortunately, it was a 3.6L Auto. Well, as it turned out the 8-Speed automatic in this thing has been nothing short of fantastic! After lifting my Sport and putting on 35" tires, I'm driving this thing all around my home state of Colorado wandering through the U.S. Forest Service wilderness having the time of my life. Every day above treeline (around 12 thousand feet) is the best day of my life. The panoramic views and vistas is the stuff John Denver has forever immortalized. I'm sure he wote his song from his Jeep.

However, you don't get to these places casually. Some of these trails are pretty damn technical and extremely difficult. That's were this 8-Speed with it's 'AutoStick' feature really shines. Without any lockers (recall I have the Sport), but with the higher clearance and better rubber, I've not gotten myself stuck anywhere yet. Granted, I've joined a very reputable Jeep Club and learned how to off-road with some true experts, I'm having the time of my life.

Still, it's a wonderful feeling to crawl over obstacles where other Jeep's, including Rubicon's struggle. Watching people stall, start, stall, start has never once ever happened to me. Not once. I can choose any of the gears and this ZF8 based transmission shifts in hundreds of milliseconds.

The secret to off-roading can be summed up in a single word 'TRACTION'. Having the right equipment to help keep and maintain that is paramount. Without lockers, this automatic is a Godsend. With throttle discipline, and the Brake Lock Differentials, I've been able to go anywhere I've pointed this thing. Granted, I'm not stupid. I'm not taking my Sport where lockers are absolutely essential. But thankfully most of Colorado, Moab, Sand Hollow UT and Big Bear CA that I've done some serious off-roading, I've had zero issues.

So pick your pain (or enjoyment) level to where your skill and heart drives you. For me it's the thrill of being there and enjoying the environment and comeradarie of others doing the same. I really like using both my feet for simultaneous throttle and braking in controlling traction, especially since I don't have lockers. It's way cool to achieve a mountain peak or some high mountain pass when looking around, you see nothing but other Rubicon's. I like being complimented for getting places unassisted without lockers is rewarding. I could probably accomplish the same with a manual but in all honesty very likely not.

The manuals certainly do enjoy the same experience, but they all do stall at some point. But for them, that's yet another dimension of problems to work through. For me, I'm very happy that I don't.

Did I mention that I'm really (really) enjoying this 8-Speed?

For what it's worth...
Happy Jeeping whether you decide to do the left foot calisthenics or not.

Last note, I do find myself rowing through all the gears and routinely downshifting, it's fun. With this AutoStick it's up to me as to selecting which gear to use at any time either on or off-road. However, I've not yet been able to achieve better or smoother acceleration performance. The shift points in this thing are nearly imperceptible. If I haven't mentioned yet, I'm really having a fribben blast with this 8-speed auto (pseudo manual).

Best damn daily I've ever owned. I'm lovin every moment I'm behind the wheel. Whether flat landing along the Front Range I call home, or in the mountains of my back yard.

Jay

 

[Rubi6mt]

Auto vs manual is so subjective that there simply is no right or wrong.

Whatever your individual preference is, fantastic!

For me, I got a stick jeep simply because I wanted one and it puts a smile on my face. No other reason.

Granted it's pretty modified with 37" KM3s, 4.88 gears (love that 100:1 Crawl ratio), CFII clutch kit, Frankenstein lift (AEV 2.5 springs, Teraflex IR control arms, Steersmarts Yeti trackbars etc), Metalcloak Undercloak skid system, trussed axles, lca skids etc etc which combined helps me have a great wheeling experience in the gnarled stuff.

The CFII clutch kit in particularly allows me to virtually idle over boulders.

My offroad crew is an equal mix of manual and auto and we all get along great, manage to do all the trails together from easy to WTF are we thinking and at the end of the day pop a cold snack (VGG reference for those in the know) and talk how fun the day was.

Pic after a great day at Rausch Creek with my auto and stick brethren (Im the one on the right with the AEVbumper). Happy 4th to all!

 

[Tncdrew]

If a new Wrangler is the consideration, at this point, until FCA pulls its head out of its arse, this whole threat is moot! ?

 

[Rodeoflyer]

What drove me to a manual was the rebuilding of auto trans on many of my past vehicles at around 100k PLUS the 5.13 first gear in the manual JL.

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