Off-roading with a manual transmission?

[Toycrusher]

There is a lot of personal preference in regards to wanting a manual or automatic. As somebody who learned how to drive a manual and started off-roading with one, I greatly prefer and automatic when off-road now. Not saying I'm the foremost expert off-roader by any means but have been building off-road rigs and going on long trips to multiple states for 25 years. Over that time I've been able to see a lot of different setups and have seen many people's rigs evolve over the years. Most of the rigs I wheel with are highly customized and many built from the ground up (up to full tube rock crawlers)

I don't think anybody can argue that an auto trans is much easier off-road, but I also think an auto has more advantages off-road than a manual. The biggest advantage of an auto, IMO, is a much broader range of available wheel speed when you are on an obstacle. The torque converter basically gives a variable gear ratio between starting from a start and almost locking up, meaning if you start on an obstacle that requires a short section of low gear crawling and than another area that needs wheel speed you just press the gas pedal harder and get some pretty good wheel speed. With an auto you can also have it shift to a higher gear in a middle of the obstacle for even more wheel speed. With a manual if you need the lowest gear to start out with on an obstacle you are stuck in that low gear and can't get much wheel speed. It's really hard to be spinning up a hill and grab another gear in a manual without losing momentum or stalling out the engine. I know people will say you should slowly crawl everything, but I will say that crawling doesn't work in a lot of situations and especially in certain parts of the country. Midwest to southeast off-road typically has a lot of loose and slick terrain and crawling simply does not work.......... I will also say that the vast majority of hardcore or "pro" off-road rigs use automatics. Go look at the rock bouncer competitions, King of the Hammers, or even desert racing trucks and show me how many of those use manual trans. Of the people I ride with automatics are at least 10:1 compared to manual transmissions, and I know many long-time off-roaders that have switched from manual to auto over the years....but don't know anybody that went from an auto to a manual.

Your points are incredibly valid. In "most" situations, or or off-road, an automatic is superior based on performance metrics.

However, I choose and advocate manual for the intangibles. For me, it's far more enjoyable to be a part of my machines. There is a subtle satisfaction in the simple things like smoothly pulling away from a stop or perfectly hitting a rev-matched downshift. Geared properly, a manual works very well off-road, when you've sufficiently improved your own skills.

Without risk, there is minimal reward. I enjoy the emotional ups and downs of driving stick, whether it's on a trail or just to the grocery store...

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[ColoradoMike]

As previously stated, it's personal preference. Some of us like a challenge and I think it's hard to argue that an auto isn't easier. That's the point for some of us though. We like doing it the hard way, not because we're hard headed, but because anyone can take the easy way, but there is something to be gained from taking the harder way. It's like taking the harder line, or taking the harder climb, or taking the bigger challenge. There's satisfaction in getting there without the ease or comfort afforded by the "auto". It's akin to the trip being the point, not the destination.

YASSS!! This.
So there I was, working my down the really eroded, harder-than-it-used-to-be old exit from Hell's Revenge. I was in my stock-height, manual-transmission JLU Rubicon. I was really working hard, trying to get out of there without busting my sh!t. I was scouting out a line, and while doing so, a group of young guys in rental Jeeps rolled up behind me. They started to scout, and one of them started to talk to one of his friends about the line, and the other kid said
"I'm just going to put it in gear and let it eat."
And I thought,"How effing lame."
You don't have to care about the line. You don't have to think about your line, your gearing and throttle. You don't have to have any skill or regard for your machine. It's rented, it's lifted, it's an automatic, and you can drive this trail with zero skill whatsoever.
In my manual, not-lifted rig, getting through that stretch unscathed took far more thought and skill, and I therefore take much more pride in my accomplishment.
This is the argument for a manual.

 

[vegasblue]

I started Jeep life with a three speed, Warn Overdrive, Drum brakes, no power steering, and no A/C CJ5. Many times, wheeling is a full day or multi-day trip and almost always includes a large dollop of rock crawling. I applaud the manual sticklers, but spending that much time behind the wheel, much of it being highly technical, the auto is the way for me. Besides, the other three motorized toys in the garage are manual. IF I was to go manual, I would be regearing extremely low and finding the heaviest duty starter available.

 

[DanW]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but there is one big advantage to a manual. If your battery dies, you can clutch start it. No-go with an auto. And with the shit OEM batteries in these things, I think it is a pretty sizable advantage, at that.

Otherwise, it is personal preference. I've not seen anyone do anything with an auto off-road that I couldn't (or didn't) do and I haven't seen anything I can do that the auto with a competent driver can't do.

The auto is easier, genearally. But some of us are up for the challenge and satisfaction offered by conquering obstacles with a manual, followed and surrounded by a majority who wouldn't be able to get it going from a stoplight on pavement.

 

[BobW]

I would like to hear from some MT drivers who operate in the mountains; how is the downhill engine braking, especially in low range? Does the engine remain at low idle coasting downhill?

A major irritation to me is the software for the auto. Coasting down it sets the idle speed up to around 2200 and then it surges between 2200-2500 , just as if you were tapping on the accelerator.

This 2L auto is great on the climbs but it sucks on descent.
[/QUOT

I would like to hear from some MT drivers who operate in the mountains; how is the downhill engine braking, especially in low range? Does the engine remain at low idle coasting downhill?

A major irritation to me is the software for the auto. Coasting down it sets the idle speed up to around 2200 and then it surges between 2200-2500 , just as if you were tapping on the accelerator.

This 2L auto is great on the climbs but it sucks on descent.

MT engine braking is very satisfactory. We were in eastern Sierra and Whites just a couple weeks ago. Worked great, nicely controlled speed, coasting down the paved roads from 9000ft+ to the Owens Valley.
And 4L-2nd gear was perfect for riding down Silver Canyon, a sometimes steep power line road from the Whites directly down into Bishop.

 

[vegasblue]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but there is one big advantage to a manual. If your battery dies, you can clutch start it. No-go with an auto. And with the shit OEM batteries in these things, I think it is a pretty sizable advantage, at that.

Meh...
Mine fits in the glovebox.

Clutch starting on the trail? On pavement sure. Better to carry one of these manual or not.

 

[Jim1964]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but there is one big advantage to a manual. If your battery dies, you can clutch start it. No-go with an auto. And with the shit OEM batteries in these things, I think it is a pretty sizable advantage, at that.

Otherwise, it is personal preference. I've not seen anyone do anything with an auto off-road that I couldn't (or didn't) do and I haven't seen anything I can do that the auto with a competent driver can't do.

The auto is easier, genearally. But some of us are up for the challenge and satisfaction offered by conquering obstacles with a manual, followed and surrounded by a majority who wouldn't be able to get it going from a stoplight on pavement.

Unfortunately, I’ll have to say I would need to see this done to believe. Yes, I have push or roll started plenty of old school vehicles. Before the days of computers and fuel injection. With no ECM and no fuel pump, she isn’t gonna start. Just jump starting a JL can be a challenge, because of voltage checks or some such pre-crank requirements. Been through that myself not long ago.

 

[Ridgway Jeeper]

People buy Jeeps with automatics? Who knew... Never a consideration for my wife in her Jl or my daughter in her JKU. Both go off road plenty.

 

[DwnSth]

My '02 TJ is manual. Does have lockers and a hand throttle. Would never want to rock crawl without the hand throttle!
Our '21 JLU Rubicon with automatic is a night and day difference. TJ is fun but lots of work while the JLU seems unstoppable in most any terrain. It's nice to have both so I fall in both camps for completely different experiences.

 

[hockeynut258]

MT with 4.88 gears and 35’s, so much fun and enjoyable off road. Able to tackle 7/10 trails and the 4:1 transfer keeps stalling to a minimum.

Basically echo everything already said.

 

[DanW]

People buy Jeeps with automatics? Who knew... Never a consideration for my wife in her Jl or my daughter in her JKU. Both go off road plenty.

Same. Wife and oldest daugher have no trouble working the manual off road. My 18yo son is particularly skilled with it. Nothing has come along that has stopped any of them, so far.

 

[Flor1]

Off road work heavy haul trucks with a manual transmission zero
On road dump trucks with a manual trans or cement mixers at the most25% and dropping..

 

[AcesandEights]

@Flor1 context? What are you talking about?

Is that the percentage you've driven, you've seen, exist in nature? Maybe it's how many points you've received playing manual transmission driving games?

 

[6.2Blazer]

Unfortunately, I’ll have to say I would need to see this done to believe. Yes, I have push or roll started plenty of old school vehicles. Before the days of computers and fuel injection. With no ECM and no fuel pump, she isn’t gonna start. Just jump starting a JL can be a challenge, because of voltage checks or some such pre-crank requirements. Been through that myself not long ago.

I was going to say almost the same thing. On old vehicle you can pull/push/roll start a manual transmission, but it's not quite that easy on new vehicles if you have zero voltage from the battery and you probably can't spin the engine fast enough to get enough juice from the alternator to get all the electronics working. Just as an example of one part, typically when you first turn the key on (and not crank the engine yet) it turns on the fuel pump to prime and pressurize the system. If the battery is dead it obviously won't do that. Not saying it is 100% the case on every vehicle, but there would be times you could not pull start a new vehicle with a manual transmission if the battery is completely dead.

 

[6.2Blazer]

@Flor1 context? What are you talking about?

Is that the percentage you've driven, you've seen, exist in nature? Maybe it's how many points you've received playing manual transmission driving games?

He's talking about heavy trucks used in construction that back in the day were almost 100% manual transmissions. I will agree that it's getting almost rare to see manual transmissions in certain applications nowadays such as concrete mixers and heavy haul off-road dump trucks.

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