Negotiating a 2024 order

[laroo]

All dealers pay the same price for the vehicle, FWP, and then get the same holdback. What differs is what happens after that in terms of how they run their business, and whatever other incentives they qualify for from the mfr. The one's on the sheet offering significant discounts over others, have simply made a commitment to offer the best price they can afford in their own business model and rely on larger volume.

So I suppose, in a sense, yes the volume dealers do pay for that privilege - but they pay for it by how they run their business, not a different tier of franchising not available to others.

In other words, some dealerships try to sell 10 Jeeps for a $1k profit. Others try to sell one Jeep for a $10k profit. Which method would most dealers pick, or really the average person? My local dealer goes for the easy option, that's why I traveled for a good deal. Less work, same profit.

I was also told that a dealer was getting an additional allocation for every sold order. During the tight covid times, that guaranteed more Jeeps for the high volume dealers. They could make a little on the sold order and try to squeeze the uninformed consumers on the other Jeep. My salesman even told me they lost money on my purchase, and they tried to make it back through bonuses. I don't believe that, but it might be pretty close to the truth. I'm just thankful for the dealers that put the effort in to give us good deals.

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[Canes_JL]

In other words, some dealerships try to sell 10 Jeeps for a $1k profit. Others try to sell one Jeep for a $10k profit. Which method would most dealers pick, or really the average person? My local dealer goes for the easy option, that's why I traveled for a good deal. Less work, same profit.

I was also told that a dealer was getting an additional allocation for every sold order. During the tight covid times, that guaranteed more Jeeps for the high volume dealers. They could make a little on the sold order and try to squeeze the uninformed consumers on the other Jeep. My salesman even told me they lost money on my purchase, and they tried to make it back through bonuses. I don't believe that, but it might be pretty close to the truth. I'm just thankful for the dealers that put the effort in to give us good deals.

I was told something similar on our last order. Salesman told said they lose money on these type orders however every sold order gives them an allocation to put a Jeep on the lot to sale which will get sold for profit.

He mentioned the amount of off the lot purchases far outweighed the amount of custom orders so in the end they gladly take the loss on the informed jeep consumer as they make it up elsewhere.

 

[Whaler27]

I'm in the same boat. My local dealer, whom I bought many vehicles from, won't compete with any below invoice pricing offered here. I also went with @Mitch@OurismanClarksville for below invoice pricing. I've heard some great things about deals with him so it was a no-brainer. So far my experience has been great. He's super responsive and very easy to work with. Looking forward to completing the deal with him when all is said and done. This will be my first time purchasing out of state and having to travel for pick-up, so it's a new experience but an exciting one.

It’s amazing how many dealers treat local customers like hostages — and equally amazing how many customers tolerate that treatment. We have no obligation to take a beating at the local dealer.

My dad bought from the local Ford dealer for many years — because of good treatment and loyalty that went both ways. Fair pricing. Handshake deals. Personal checks, etc. I did the same for years, but that time has passed. Every transaction stands alone now, whether your family has purchased 45 vehicles over the last 60 years, or you’re a first time buyer, everybody gets processed in the same way.

When I went to buy our Raptor in 2018 the local Ford dealer had a $10,000 additional dealer markup on the window. Raptors were rare at the time — only a handful of new ones on Oregon lots — so I agreed to pay MSRP, which is something I had never done. The sales manager smirked and scoffed at me. He did’t even make a counteroffer. So I went home, got on the computer, and found a bunch of Raptors advertised on eBay. They were here and there, all over the country. I found exactly what I wanted at Yankee Ford in Portland, Maine — literally the opposite end of the country from me. I researched the dealer, found great reviews, and bought the Raptor over the phone in just a few minutes. I wired the money, and the following day the dealership FedEx’d me the paperwork, including the MSO, so I could go to Oregon DMV, register the truck, and fly to Maine with my Oregon plates in hand. It couldn’t have been easier.

My wife and I turned the truck trip into a adventure. It was great fun. We got exactly what we wanted — a better (fully) optioned truck with no “I love me” Raptor graphics. We flew first class, got a courtesy ride to the dealership, stayed in nice hotels, ate good meals, and saw new sights. When all the bills were totaled we’d still spent thousands less than the local dealer demanded.

When I swung by my local Ford dealer a few weeks after getting home the sales manager met me at the door with an incredulous look on his face. “Why didn’t you buy from us?!” I said, “I tried.”

Car dealers can raise asking prices as much as they wish, and they can add on any made-up “doc fees”, “detailing fees”, “market adjustment”, or whatever fees they wish. That’s their prerogative. And we can vote with our feet. Buying a jeep or truck is no different from buying a blender or lawnmower (except price). They make new ones every day.

If I was buying a new Jeep today I’d give the local dealership a shot and, when they jerked me around, I’d go to Ratbert’s list and start with the dealer options that don’t require use of their financing or payment of big “doc fees” which can substantially erode the claimed discount.

 

[Whaler27]

I was told something similar on our last order. Salesman told said they lose money on these type orders however every sold order gives them an allocation to put a Jeep on the lot to sale which will get sold for profit.

He mentioned the amount of off the lot purchases far outweighed the amount of custom orders so in the end they gladly take the loss on the informed jeep consumer as they make it up elsewhere.

I’ve heard every manner of explanation/justification for the pricing schemes at vehicle dealerships — invariably offered as a justification for why their pricing is not competitive. Some of it may be true. Much of it is not, but I don’t care how or why they arrive at their business model, and I’m not there to find a new fishing buddy. When I’m spending my money all I need to hear from them is “yes”, “no”, or counteroffer. And option #3 always sends me to the computer keyboard.

 

[Tikenator]

I tried roping in my local dealer who wanted no part of the good deals in this community. Their loss. Fortunately I didn't have to look far and got connected to Mitch@Ourisman. Seems to be one of the best dealers here. First time trying to buy out of state for me and so far has been a great experience.

Thank you for mentioning Mitch@Ourisman. I also reached out to him last week and I am placing an order as we speak. I have never done this before, ordering remotely, but I am tired of the dealership treatment and would love to secure below invoice pricing. Will update you all when my order is fulfilled.

 

[daboink]

It’s amazing how many dealers treat local customers like hostages — and equally amazing how many customers tolerate that treatment. We have no obligation to take a beating at the local dealer.

My dad bought from the local Ford dealer for many years — because of good treatment and loyalty that went both ways. Fair pricing. Handshake deals. Personal checks, etc. I did the same for years, but that time has passed. Every transaction stands alone now, whether your family has purchased 45 vehicles over the last 60 years, or you’re a first time buyer, everybody gets processed in the same way.

When I went to buy our Raptor in 2018 the local Ford dealer had a $10,000 additional dealer markup on the window. Raptors were rare at the time — only a handful of new ones on Oregon lots — so I agreed to pay MSRP, which is something I had never done. The sales manager smirked and scoffed at me. He did’t even make a counteroffer. So I went home, got on the computer, and found a bunch of Raptors advertised on eBay. They were here and there, all over the country. I found exactly what I wanted at Yankee Ford in Portland, Maine — literally the opposite end of the country from me. I researched the dealer, found great reviews, and bought the Raptor over the phone in just a few minutes. I wired the money, and the following day the dealership FedEx’d me the paperwork, including the MSO, so I could go to Oregon DMV, register the truck, and fly to Maine with my Oregon plates in hand. It couldn’t have been easier.

My wife and I turned the truck trip into a adventure. It was great fun. We got exactly what we wanted — a better (fully) optioned truck with no “I love me” Raptor graphics. We flew first class, got a courtesy ride to the dealership, stayed in nice hotels, ate good meals, and saw new sights. When all the bills were totaled we’d still spent thousands less than the local dealer demanded.

When I swung by my local Ford dealer a few weeks after getting home the sales manager met me at the door with an incredulous look on his face. “Why didn’t you buy from us?!” I said, “I tried.”

Car dealers can raise asking prices as much as they wish, and they can add on any made-up “doc fees”, “detailing fees”, “market adjustment”, or whatever fees they wish. That’s their prerogative. And we can vote with our feet. Buying a jeep or truck is no different from buying a blender or lawnmower (except price). They make new ones every day.

If I was buying a new Jeep today I’d give the local dealership a shot and, when they jerked me around, I’d go to Ratbert’s list and start with the dealer options that don’t require use of their financing or payment of big “doc fees” which can substantially erode the claimed discount.

I started doing the same thing with Peterson in Nampa and my first Rubicon. I have always started looking for a dealer out west somewhere to make a road trip / adventure out of the purchase. I am convinced I always save significant dollars to buy this way. I have now found Gupton on Ratberts list and they are great. Enjoyed seeing that I am not the only one that has lived through this experience.

 

[wreck99]

It’s amazing how many dealers treat local customers like hostages — and equally amazing how many customers tolerate that treatment. We have no obligation to take a beating at the local dealer.

My dad bought from the local Ford dealer for many years — because of good treatment and loyalty that went both ways. Fair pricing. Handshake deals. Personal checks, etc. I did the same for years, but that time has passed. Every transaction stands alone now, whether your family has purchased 45 vehicles over the last 60 years, or you’re a first time buyer, everybody gets processed in the same way.

When I went to buy our Raptor in 2018 the local Ford dealer had a $10,000 additional dealer markup on the window. Raptors were rare at the time — only a handful of new ones on Oregon lots — so I agreed to pay MSRP, which is something I had never done. The sales manager smirked and scoffed at me. He did’t even make a counteroffer. So I went home, got on the computer, and found a bunch of Raptors advertised on eBay. They were here and there, all over the country. I found exactly what I wanted at Yankee Ford in Portland, Maine — literally the opposite end of the country from me. I researched the dealer, found great reviews, and bought the Raptor over the phone in just a few minutes. I wired the money, and the following day the dealership FedEx’d me the paperwork, including the MSO, so I could go to Oregon DMV, register the truck, and fly to Maine with my Oregon plates in hand. It couldn’t have been easier.

My wife and I turned the truck trip into a adventure. It was great fun. We got exactly what we wanted — a better (fully) optioned truck with no “I love me” Raptor graphics. We flew first class, got a courtesy ride to the dealership, stayed in nice hotels, ate good meals, and saw new sights. When all the bills were totaled we’d still spent thousands less than the local dealer demanded.

When I swung by my local Ford dealer a few weeks after getting home the sales manager met me at the door with an incredulous look on his face. “Why didn’t you buy from us?!” I said, “I tried.”

Car dealers can raise asking prices as much as they wish, and they can add on any made-up “doc fees”, “detailing fees”, “market adjustment”, or whatever fees they wish. That’s their prerogative. And we can vote with our feet. Buying a jeep or truck is no different from buying a blender or lawnmower (except price). They make new ones every day.

If I was buying a new Jeep today I’d give the local dealership a shot and, when they jerked me around, I’d go to Ratbert’s list and start with the dealer options that don’t require use of their financing or payment of big “doc fees” which can substantially erode the claimed discount.

This is pretty much what I did. When I lived up north, I always bought from the same dealership my dad bought vehicles from. We knew the sales manager and got great deals for years. Sadly those days are over when that guy retired. When I moved here in SC, I found a local dealership that was good. I've been happy with my purchases over the past 6 years but this Wrangler order had me looking elsewhere since they wouldn't budge at all. I was mistaken to think that a loyal customer would get any better treatment. Oh well, their loss as I found Mitch@Ourisman. I'll still have to use their service dept but this experience of buying online essentially may have me continuing that practice from here out. It seems so many have been very satisfied with purchasing out of state to get taken care of. The local dealers will have to wise up or lose out.

 

[stephanadams]

Most of them will do out of state purchases you just have to go get it (or make arrangements) and bring it home.

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[rcadden]

To me the biggest problem is that a large majority of consumers will say, "Right, I need a new car, it's off to the dealership to buy one", or they wait until their previous vehicle has literally died before shopping.

Either way, they have unknowingly lost their key area of leverage over a salesperson = time. If you go in with the need/expectation of driving home in your new vehicle, you are most likely to get screwed. When you have the benefit of time, you gain the ability to dictate the terms of the deal. Once the salesperson knows you intend to drive home in your new vehicle already, you've surrendered any and all leverage you might have had in the negotiation.

I emailed my build to 10 dealerships. Gave them all a week and then went with the one who actually returned my message and gave me the best price, which happened to be Gupton. I was amazed at how few dealerships even bothered to respond to my inquiry at all.

 

[jeepjibboom]

To me the biggest problem is that a large majority of consumers will say, "Right, I need a new car, it's off to the dealership to buy one", or they wait until their previous vehicle has literally died before shopping.

Either way, they have unknowingly lost their key area of leverage over a salesperson = time. If you go in with the need/expectation of driving home in your new vehicle, you are most likely to get screwed. When you have the benefit of time, you gain the ability to dictate the terms of the deal. Once the salesperson knows you intend to drive home in your new vehicle already, you've surrendered any and all leverage you might have had in the negotiation.

I emailed my build to 10 dealerships. Gave them all a week and then went with the one who actually returned my message and gave me the best price, which happened to be Gupton. I was amazed at how few dealerships even bothered to respond to my inquiry at all.

Fully agree here. Doesn't make sense. Some good dealerships around me won't even deal at FWP. Just MSRP. Meanwhile, other dealerships are quoting 4-7% under FWP to get you to order with them. Luckily, I live only 3 hours from Granger. I contacted them and am waiting to order a 22Y. They were awesome, informative, direct and offered the best deal from the moment I contacted them.

 

[84jeepjohn]

Great advice thus far in the thread. I'm a Gupton fanboy here.

Once I figured out what I wanted, I sent my order to 10 dealers - 5 from Ratbert's list and 5 local dealerships. Gupton responded the quickest and with the best deal, so that's what I went with. Was kind of hoping one of the local dealerships would even come close, but they didn't.

Had the sales manager at the local Autonation just straight up tell me that if Gupton made that offer in writing (which they did) then I should go there cause he couldn't touch it.

Right I sent to all three local dealers.... and I'm still waiting to get anything back from them. Was very disappointed. Granted I think they were like screw it.

 

[BobRhino]

Only due to a recent crash of our JKUR we found ourselves without a second vehicle, a much delayed repair time (maybe January B4 auto body shop tear down begin) and no reasonably priced rental cars, if any. We decided to shop for a new. Could only order ‘24 model wranglers. After many conversations with new auto contacts we decided to purchase with Kent Shurtleff with Peterson Auto Group in Nampa Idaho. All the knowledge one can get from this forum can net you with substantial savings and a great buying experience. I couldn’t be happier with my recent order for my JKLR X, V-6, 8 SPD auto. Call Kent. Let him know where you say the recommendation.

 

[stephanadams]

yes the volume dealers do pay for that privilege - but they pay for it by how they run their business.

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