Has it Happened

[Cartman]

@AndySpill nice try to start fight. Even if you are in USA, try to know the globe. You are not the center of univerce. Nobody cares why you do it and nobody cares hov many user did it.
Even though billions of people have committed murder, it is not legal and they will still convict you for it. So even if all Jeep owners disconnected the AUX battery, despite the manufacturer's recommendation, your battery and charging will not be covered by the warranty. If you have never heard of conditions that limit or void the warranty as such or parts of it, you are a fool. Accept it and grow up.

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[AndySpill]

@AndySpill nice try to start fight.

No fight. You made some ridiculous statements about how warranty service was all but certain to be denied as a result of this battery bypass and several people aside from me have told you here that it's very unlikely to be the case or has actually been the case for them in practice.

Even if you are in USA, try to know the globe. You are not the center of univerce.

The only reason, relevant though it is, that your Slovakian locale came up was as a possible way to explain why you might be out of the loop as it regards US Stellantis dealership service practices. That same relevance might arise regardless of where outside the US you reside based on your possible ignorance (not stupidity, ignorance), so it's nothing to do with Slovakia, as to how Stellantis service occurs in the States where, yes, most Wranglers are. No value was assigned as higher or lower to any nation on the globe in my remarks, but hey, if you can't win on facts, claim you were attacked, right?

Nobody cares why you do it and nobody cares hov many user did it.

Wait, first let me translate what I think you are saying (yeah, you'll see that as an insult even though you plain old didn't make yourself clear) and then I'll respond.

I think you're saying that the number of people who have done this modification is irrelevant. If so, i think that's wrong. And I think so because if lots have done it, (and they have) and so few have come to the forum to claim about being denied service because of it, (and they would express that here were it the case) a modification that's been known here since 2018, then probably, not too many people are getting denied service because of this modification.

But I could be wrong: the very motivation for the question of this thread I initially posed.

Even though billions of people have committed murder, it is not legal and they will still convict you for it.

Hold your calls everyone, we have a winner! @Cartman is comparing murder, a crime in virtually every nation I can think of, to a perfectly legal (or moral) modification to a vehicle that by virtual of at least American law since 1975 (again, the place most Wranglers reside) should not have you denied warranty coverage.

This analogy is so poor I may actually have second hand embarrassment from it. The closest thing to even moral transgression this modification provides is failure to reduce carbon emissions, as turning ESS off with it is probably best. And as far as I'm concerned blame here best lies with Stellantis for designing a crappy ESS system that they were not required (they choose) to equip their US fleet with to be able to lawfully report better MPG ratings on their Malroney sticker, as per (there I go again) US EPA law.

Authorities will tend to hold you accountable for murder because it's unlawful and seen by society as terrible. Aux battery bypass is neither.

So even if all Jeep owners disconnected the AUX battery, despite the manufacturer's recommendation, your battery and charging will not be covered by the warranty.

Wrong, at least in the States. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) of 1975 (again, you'll have to pardon my ethnocentric US reference, but it's where most Wranglers are found) would obligate the dealer/manufacture to show that your main battery and charging were adversely effected by this modification. In reality, main battery performance is statistically improved, (let alone is it compromised) with its disconnection from a potentially cannibalistic Aux battery, and the smart alternator experiences, best case, no more wear, backfilling the same amount of current used on appliances whether one or two batteries provides it (my source on that one is Newton.) Heck, you want to tax a charging system, make it try to backfill a bad Aux battery that won't accept the charge offered it.

If you have never heard of conditions that limit or void the warranty as such or parts of it, you are a fool. Accept it and grow up.

Your not paying attention or maybe something is getting lost in translation. Again, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) of 1975 (again, you'll have to pardon my ethnocentric US reference, but it's where most Wranglers are found) lawfully prevents the very conditions you describe, that limit or void the warranty from being claimed by dealers or manufacturers as a result of product modification, unless that modification can be shown (legal onus being on the dealer/manufacturer, not the owner) to directly cause the defect or failure.

This modification is more likely to preserve, not expedite the demise of the main battery from a defective Aux battery cannibalizing it. I doubt that effecting this modification would even jeopardize being denied service or a warranty claim on a defective main battery. But on that perhaps we can debate. What is all but certain is that virtually all other aspects of the vehicle are utterly unaffected by this change, and were the matter taken to (US, so sorry) court, Stellantis would have their metaphorical pants pulled over the head trying to fight it. They would have to explain how a modification that actually reduces wear and tear instead expedited it.

 

[THAW]

Maybe other people haven't, whether I've repeated content or not, read what you have. Every think about that?

So you're like (Spill-style metaphor incoming) an "author who endlessly rewrites a book into sequels in case the first one wasn't read".

 

[flick2614]

Confusing question here: are you having your battery serviced? If so what exactly is a battery service?

Or are you asking if anyone has been denied service on the Jeep by the dealer because the aux battery is deleted.

Regardless I have to imagine that anyone that deleted the aux battery is likely not going to a dealer for service unless under conditions such as warranty. In which case they’ve likely reconnected the aux battery.

 

[AndySpill]

So you're like (Spill-style metaphor incoming) an "author who endlessly rewrites a book into sequels in case the first one wasn't read".

Foster, go load test your JLs battery. It will give you something more productive to do. If your posts are anyway reflective of how you relate to people one to one it probably explains not only why you have the time to be here, but anger that motivates your need to start in, as you did on this thread.

Heck, that battery's probably registering a mere 99%, one off of full charge. This will give you're anal battery acumen something to do: i.e. go to the store and buy not one but two replacement batteries so you have backup for when the new one drops as well down to 99%.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Really, Foster, me? You have nobody easier here to target, not that you should target anyone?

Should I relink some of your brain fart posts of past that make no sense, and that I pointed out, that cause you to harbor this resentment?

Go find somewhere else to vent and I will stop addressing you as well. Wouldn't you like that? I would.

Better, originate a thread with a Jeep topic that targets its function, not people. Exactly what is your ratio of thread posts to thread origination here: 1,000 to 1?

 

[jadmt]

If you do this to your jeep you should never expect anyone else to work on it. Make modifications at your own risk.

If you’re the type of person to suggest that 10,000 random idiots online also do this to your jeep, God help you.

I’m sick and tired of dealing with electrical problems and blown fuses from customers that think they can just start fucking around under the hood with zero understanding of the systems they’re messing with.

kind of like the people who know what oil is better than what is printed in the owner's manual....I love it when people cite the Moss Magnuson act...I put 40" tires on and jeep is going to have to prove they caused my tranny to fail.......pretty sure if you disable part of your electrical system and then have an issue with another part of the electrical system the MMA is not going help you....if on the other hand you use a fram filter instead of a mopar filter you probably won't have an issue...

 

[AndySpill]

Confusing question here: are you having your battery serviced? If so what exactly is a battery service?

Or are you asking if anyone has been denied service on the Jeep by the dealer because the aux battery is deleted.

Regardless I have to imagine that anyone that deleted the aux battery is likely not going to a dealer for service unless under conditions such as warranty. In which case they’ve likely reconnected the aux battery.

Randy, thank you for an on point flameless question. It's refreshing.

I'm asking if anyone has been denied service on the Jeep by the dealer because the aux battery is deleted.

I'd like to think that people still need to get service on the JLs from the dealer who have not simply deleted their Aux battery, but even if it's still in place, have had it long enough that it doesn't hold a charge anymore and would be detrimental to re-hook up prior to dealer service, potentially destroying the main battery.

It's my guess that particularly as paying out of warranty customers, but even for unrelated warranty service, most techs don't even check or care, one battery or two. But of course it's my guess and why I asked the question I did.

You see @THAW, that's what a reasonable post on Randy's part looks like. Take notes.

 

[AndySpill]

kind of like the people who know what oil is better than what is printed in the owner's manual....I love it when people cite the Moss Magnuson act...I put 40" tires on and jeep is going to have to prove they caused my tranny to fail.......pretty sure if you disable part of your electrical system and then have an issue with another part of the electrical system the MMA is not going help you....if on the other hand you use a fram filter instead of a mopar filter you probably won't have an issue...

Jeff, I too don't like people who cut corners and then go citing Moss Magnuson. I think dealers should be fair to us, and we fair to dealers.

But bypassing the Aux battery is such a benign modification, itself highly motivated by such a flawed Stellantis design, that reduces (and certainly doesn't raise) incidence of vehicle defect that citing Moss Magnuson to the nth degree on this particular modification is very fair game.

 

[AndySpill]

So you're like (Spill-style metaphor incoming) an "author who endlessly rewrites a book into sequels in case the first one wasn't read".

Let me tell you what's dickish about that remark. Pay attention Foster, this one's not that difficult. Ready?

If people here sourced prior posts with any degree that books written still get read you'd actually have point. They, for better or worse don't. Sure some people do activate search here, but by the nature of many of the questions that get recirculated here, I suspect that vast majority don't.

If they did the individual I was debating issues with would likely possess the knowledge to not bring up the silly points he did in the first place.

Clear enough for you? Short enough? Hit me back with questions if that was too hard for you to grasp.

 

[txj2go]

[QUOTE="AndySpill, post: 3194845, member: 99074
Wow, for a bunch of reasons this wasn't the response I expected. Soap box ascending time.
[/QUOTE]

I've been on this forum for a long time and I wouldn't expect that response either. There are a lot of very long threads on this forum about the dual battery system and related modifications, with a lot of input by people who know a lot about the Jeep system. So modifying the system is not just fooling around under the hood. However it is a modification of the Jeep and I would always attempt to put the Jeep back to factory condition before taking it to the dealer. YMMV, some dealers will use anything as an excuse to deny service, some won't.

I've been involved in auto repair for a long time, my father owned a repair business for over 60 years. I am unlikely to ever take my Jeep to a dealer for anything. My recommendation unless the OP's vehicle is almost brand new is for them to buy a battery brand that they trust and throw out the OE battery. There are too many reports of the OE battery not being very good and not lasting very long. I bought my Jeep used and at 3 years old I put a new battery in it, and discovered that my 3 year old Jeep had a 2 year old battery in it meaning the original battery was replaced at 1 year age.

 

[DaltonGang]

[QUOTE="AndySpill, post: 3194845, member: 99074
Wow, for a bunch of reasons this wasn't the response I expected. Soap box ascending time.

I think the comments go back, much further, from previous threads, and issues.

That being said. Pulling the fuse and bypassing the AUX Battery was one of the best mods I've done to my Wrangler. Switching over to 5W-30 oil was by far the best.

 

[U EEDIOT]

Curious, has anyone heard of or experienced a dealership denying service on a factory dual AGM battery JL simply because the owner presented the vehicle with a disconnected Aux battery and Fuse 42 setup (or, effectively the same thing, a fused jumper from N1 to N2 in the PDC)? TIA

Nope.

 

[U EEDIOT]

Wow, for a bunch of reasons this wasn't the response I expected. Soap box ascending time.

First, the question was if someone had been denied service. But ok, posts do where posts go, and sometimes, myself included, people add tangents to the central thread question, so let's address them.

But before I do, conflict of interest statement: I have no horse in this race. I run two AGM batteries, like originally factory provided (having swapped them due to age) trickle charge, and engage ESS. But that's just me. YMMV and that's cool with me. You do you and I'll do me here.

@mwilk012, @Cartman : you make it sound like by bypassing the Aux battery, a mere cable and fuse pull, is like someone modified their JL to the extent that they've changed the propulsion system from "gasoline to hydrogen gas." Sure, dealers have every right to turn away servicing vehicles that significantly differ from stock, particularly when the repair in question touches upon the very owner modifications, having no official road map upon which to effect dealer consistent and Stellantis blessed approaches to service.

But it is precisely these genuine excuses that have been so abused by the guarantors of warranties (dealers/manufacturers) that inspired the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) of 1975, which, as it relates to vehicles at least, places the onus of demonstrating that the aftermarket part or modification directly caused the defect or failure for which warranty coverage is being sought. Of course enforcing that requires lawyers and money (on the part of the vehicle owner.) And sometimes, sure, the repair is not warranty related.

So @Cartman, that's actually not the law, much that practically speaking, given the cost of litigation, your statement has practical application.

And @mwilk012 , I appreciate, from the mechanic's perspective your frustration in the ignorant owner making poor or bad modifications to vehicles that make your life servicing them more difficult. But again, this isn't adding "drone wings and making the vehicle airborne, crashing, smashing up the radiator and asking you to replace it." This is an extremely mild modification, with absolutely no downstream implications, battle tested over years, and something that wouldn't be necessary if Stellantis had gotten ESS right in the first place.

You write, "If you’re the type of person to suggest that 10,000 random idiots online also do this to your jeep, God help you."

Let me clarify. I don't recommend 10,000 random idiots effect this change, I recommend that every dual AGM battery JL owner, who doesn't want to run ESS events, learn, if they can (it's not hard) to do this change or turf it out to someone who can. And this is coming from a forum member who is probably pretty far "green leaning." I'm all about limiting hydrocarbons, but not at owner expense of a crappy ESS system design.

My only trepidation is the B.S. a dealer might offer in denying service for this change that was the very impetus for this thread.

And allow me to go out on a limb and say that bypassing the Aux battery doesn't merely fail to cause a defect or failure, it outright address and corrects one. That failure was the installation of a second, dissimilar size (albeit same battery chemistry as is necessary in) parallel connected battery to regulate the voltage sensitive entertainment system during ESS events. Best practices find, unlike here, identical size and type batteries connected in parallel, and ideally, in Stellantis' case, the periodic and automatic assignment of one of those batteries as the Aux, and one as the main, switching off for even wear, that would have been prudent IMHO. Everything about this Aux battery, including its ridiculous location for service, particularly in light of the frequency with which in needs service, strikes me as engineering afterthought.

Funny, other manufacturers managed to do just fine with one battery ESS systems. From my vantage point Stellantis' solution to this entertain system problem was to put the screws to its entertainment system vendor to engineer a less voltage sensitive system as clearly must be found in other ICE vehicles running ESS on one battery, not incorporate a flawed dissimilar sized double battery solution to address it. That's solving one problem by creating another. The only thing I can say in fairness to Stellantis is that the Jeep is unique (compared to some sedan let's say running ESS ) in owner frequency of adding electrical current hungry appliances for which two batteries makes sense. But the very aftermarket addition of such power hungry things, from winches to sound systems seems best addressed by also incorporating aftermarket battery systems like Genesis offers, or some factory upgrade of same, not make every dual AGM battery JL owner have these two batteries.

So, back on track, I'm interested in hearing if someone has been, or knows someone who has been denied service based on this modification, which I personally consider as benign (provided you don't run ESS events with one battery) as "disabling the vanity mirror light."

Off soap box.

What?

 

[Ratbert]

Wow, for a bunch of reasons this wasn't the response I expected. Soap box ascending time.

First, the question was if someone had been denied service. But ok, posts do where posts go, and sometimes, myself included, people add tangents to the central thread question, so let's address them.

But before I do, conflict of interest statement: I have no horse in this race. I run two AGM batteries, like originally factory provided (having swapped them due to age) trickle charge, and engage ESS. But that's just me. YMMV and that's cool with me. You do you and I'll do me here.

@mwilk012, @Cartman : you make it sound like by bypassing the Aux battery, a mere cable and fuse pull, is like someone modified their JL to the extent that they've changed the propulsion system from "gasoline to hydrogen gas." Sure, dealers have every right to turn away servicing vehicles that significantly differ from stock, particularly when the repair in question touches upon the very owner modifications, having no official road map upon which to effect dealer consistent and Stellantis blessed approaches to service.

But it is precisely these genuine excuses that have been so abused by the guarantors of warranties (dealers/manufacturers) that inspired the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) of 1975, which, as it relates to vehicles at least, places the onus of demonstrating that the aftermarket part or modification directly caused the defect or failure for which warranty coverage is being sought. Of course enforcing that requires lawyers and money (on the part of the vehicle owner.) And sometimes, sure, the repair is not warranty related.

So @Cartman, that's actually not the law, much that practically speaking, given the cost of litigation, your statement has practical application.

And @mwilk012 , I appreciate, from the mechanic's perspective your frustration in the ignorant owner making poor or bad modifications to vehicles that make your life servicing them more difficult. But again, this isn't adding "drone wings and making the vehicle airborne, crashing, smashing up the radiator and asking you to replace it." This is an extremely mild modification, with absolutely no downstream implications, battle tested over years, and something that wouldn't be necessary if Stellantis had gotten ESS right in the first place.

You write, "If you’re the type of person to suggest that 10,000 random idiots online also do this to your jeep, God help you."

Let me clarify. I don't recommend 10,000 random idiots effect this change, I recommend that every dual AGM battery JL owner, who doesn't want to run ESS events, learn, if they can (it's not hard) to do this change or turf it out to someone who can. And this is coming from a forum member who is probably pretty far "green leaning." I'm all about limiting hydrocarbons, but not at owner expense of a crappy ESS system design.

My only trepidation is the B.S. a dealer might offer in denying service for this change that was the very impetus for this thread.

And allow me to go out on a limb and say that bypassing the Aux battery doesn't merely fail to cause a defect or failure, it outright address and corrects one. That failure was the installation of a second, dissimilar size (albeit same battery chemistry as is necessary in) parallel connected battery to regulate the voltage sensitive entertainment system during ESS events. Best practices find, unlike here, identical size and type batteries connected in parallel, and ideally, in Stellantis' case, the periodic and automatic assignment of one of those batteries as the Aux, and one as the main, switching off for even wear, that would have been prudent IMHO. Everything about this Aux battery, including its ridiculous location for service, particularly in light of the frequency with which in needs service, strikes me as engineering afterthought.

Funny, other manufacturers managed to do just fine with one battery ESS systems. From my vantage point Stellantis' solution to this entertain system problem was to put the screws to its entertainment system vendor to engineer a less voltage sensitive system as clearly must be found in other ICE vehicles running ESS on one battery, not incorporate a flawed dissimilar sized double battery solution to address it. That's solving one problem by creating another. The only thing I can say in fairness to Stellantis is that the Jeep is unique (compared to some sedan let's say running ESS ) in owner frequency of adding electrical current hungry appliances for which two batteries makes sense. But the very aftermarket addition of such power hungry things, from winches to sound systems seems best addressed by also incorporating aftermarket battery systems like Genesis offers, or some factory upgrade of same, not make every dual AGM battery JL owner have these two batteries.

So, back on track, I'm interested in hearing if someone has been, or knows someone who has been denied service based on this modification, which I personally consider as benign (provided you don't run ESS events with one battery) as "disabling the vanity mirror light."

Off soap box.

Sorry, I couldn't make it though that. ChatGPT turned those 1,314 words into:

Bypassing Jeep JL’s aux battery is a harmless ESS fix; warranty denial unlikely.

Edit for clarification: I asked ChatGPT to summarize the specific post, not the topic.

 

[TheBirdie72]

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