Flat Tow winch bumper options

lightsout

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Final point....You never spoke with the engineer...Meaning you played the telephone message game...And what do we all know about that game? The message always changes....so realistically did the right question actually get asked to the engineer and did his precise answer make it back un changed? very unlikely.

What a tool... When you have a technical question and contact Mopar do you thing they transfer you to the engineer who designed that part of the Vehicle? I call C/S they did not have the direct answer, they took my number, then followed up with their technical team and then 2 days later called me back with the answer to my question that I have discussed here. Sorry that was not good enough for you, for me I take their word for it..

I would suggest you have equal or bigger issues, assuming that Gasser motorhome in the background of your picture is what you tow with, and considering you have many upgrades to your Rubicon including skids, your Wrangler exceeds the towing limitations of your RV. With that said it is clear safety is not a concern to you.

It is unfortunate some to not take these issues seriously.
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Jondrew

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What a tool... When you have a technical question and contact Mopar do you thing they transfer you to the engineer who designed that part of the Vehicle? I call C/S they did not have the direct answer, they took my number, then followed up with their technical team and then 2 days later called me back with the answer to my question that I have discussed here. Sorry that was not good enough for you, for me I take their word for it..

I would suggest you have equal or bigger issues, assuming that Gasser motorhome in the background of your picture is what you tow with, and considering you have many upgrades to your Rubicon including skids, your Wrangler exceeds the towing limitations of your RV. With that said it is clear safety is not a concern to you.

It is unfortunate some to not take these issues seriously.
@AFfiredawg - he’s insulting your motorhome. It’s all out war now!
 

AFfiredawg

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I am done with the back and forth...Logic and facts don't work with some people and he has made obvious that he is one of them. I have no concerns, I am within the legal/safe limits for my setup...it has been on a scale and numbers have been run...
 

AFfiredawg

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Also of note, I don't go around posting my opinion as a fact....
 

AFfiredawg

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@AFfiredawg - he’s insulting your motorhome. It’s all out war now!
Making assumptions about my setup that he has never laid eyes on just makes himself look even more like a moron than he already has...

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roaniecowpony

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First, thanks to all those that debated these past 4 pages. Good points.

That front flange on the frame for the bumper is not only thin, it also has a rediculous "window" on the fillet where it is bent over the frame. This was the first time I've seen that approach to provide clearance for the inner fillet of the bent flange to clear the corner of the frame and it severely compromises the strength of that flange. The classic way is to chamfer the corners of the piece that fits in, the frame in this case. Must have been an intern that designed that detail.

However, there are supplemental load paths when towing from the bumper. There are side doublers that attach to the flange and frame sides. Also, a winch plate attaches to the side of the frame and the bumper flange inboard side in some cases, or the load path would go thru the bumper. These provide redundant load paths from the bumper to the frame. Not saying it's great, but it has some redundancy.

I'm going to tow from the front flanges as bolted thru the bumper. But I have given some thought to adding some structure to the flange. I haven't seen the RH winch plate. If it picks up the bumper flange and frame side, I'm satisfied. If not, I'll work on it. Also, as pointed out in this thread, the commercially available towbar attach plates pick up only 2 bolts of the flange. That's not going to be acceptable to me. I'm making new plates that pick up all 4 bolts.
 

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Hey everyone, we've been quietly following this thread and have heard all your concerns. We have developed structural front bumper Frame Tie-In Brackets for both the Jeep JL and JK. Just as @roaniecowpony mentioned above, the brackets add additional strength and support to the frame face plate. These Frame Tie-In Brackets reinforce the connection between the welded face plate of your Jeep frame and the frame itself, and coupled with our Tow Bar Adapters and our Front Bumpers create a super strong and reliable connection to your RV! These brackets come in black powder coat finish and are fully welded and made from high strength 3/16” thick steel for maximum strength. They also contain an integrated safety chain attachment point and are completely bolt on and work with all LOD front bumpers.

https://lodoffroad.com/jl-frame-tie-in-brackets.html
https://lodoffroad.com/jk-frame-tie-in-brackets.html
 

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Hey everyone, we've been quietly following this thread and have heard all your concerns. We have developed structural front bumper Frame Tie-In Brackets for both the Jeep JL and JK. Just as @roaniecowpony mentioned above, the brackets add additional strength and support to the frame face plate. These Frame Tie-In Brackets reinforce the connection between the welded face plate of your Jeep frame and the frame itself, and coupled with our Tow Bar Adapters and our Front Bumpers create a super strong and reliable connection to your RV! These brackets come in black powder coat finish and are fully welded and made from high strength 3/16” thick steel for maximum strength. They also contain an integrated safety chain attachment point and are completely bolt on and work with all LOD front bumpers.

https://lodoffroad.com/jl-frame-tie-in-brackets.html
https://lodoffroad.com/jk-frame-tie-in-brackets.html

For months I have been advocating that bumper towing should not be done as that is also the policy of Mopar all do to the integrity or lack there of on the bumper face plate, I was brutely critisized for this position by many including the aftermarket bumper manufactures. I have to give credit to LOD this is a well needed addition to make towing safer. AS I have said it is not the bumpers that make towing unsafe it is the weak bumper face place.

Kudos to LOD, I originally ordered a bumper from LOD but after leaning the issues with bumper towing and the JL weak faceplate I canceled my order, had this existed I wold have stayed the course.

LOD Thanks for seeing the problem and responding, whereas Rock Hard and the others just turn a blind eye to safety
 

AFfiredawg

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....Notice though that they are listed as "optional" Meaning they simply created something to quiet the nay sayers even though it's not necessary....The best part is this is almost identical to what jeep already had there...Three differences that i see...angle brace where it connects to the horn, eyelet for safety cables to connect to...and it adds a second bolt to the vertical coming off the frame(not the frame rail itself)....I am surprised the naysayer didn't see these very limited differences and call it out...

Having said that, would I get it? sure...but more for the safety cable connection than anything else...Oh and having spent that last week and a half in Moab I am so glad I Don't have tow plate hanging down...It would have killed my capability on the trails!
 

lightsout

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....Notice though that they are listed as "optional" Meaning they simply created something to quiet the nay sayers even though it's not necessary....The best part is this is almost identical to what jeep already had there...Three differences that i see...angle brace where it connects to the horn, eyelet for safety cables to connect to...and it adds a second bolt to the vertical coming off the frame(not the frame rail itself)....I am surprised the naysayer didn't see these very limited differences and call it out...

Having said that, would I get it? sure...but more for the safety cable connection than anything else...Oh and having spent that last week and a half in Moab I am so glad I Don't have tow plate hanging down...It would have killed my capability on the trails!
[

Having said that, would I get it? sure...but more for the safety cable connection than anything else...Oh and having spent that last week and a half in Moab I am so glad I Don't have tow plate hanging down...It would have killed my capability on the trails![/QUOTE]


yea, yea that is the only reason they (LOD) created a safer solution, just to shut up the ney sayers, that is a great business plan, design and manufacture something that is not needed just for posterity... The brilliance is mind boggling

You have no baseline regarding clearance for example the LOD bumper compared to the Blue Ox Tow Plate is with in 1/4 inch of each other and the Rock Hard is also very close. the difference is negligible, but if that is what it takes for you to justify your choices then so be it, just be knowledgeable and honest with your comments.
 

AFfiredawg

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[

yea, yea that is the only reason they (LOD) created a safer solution, just to shut up the ney sayers, that is a great business plan, design and manufacture something that is not needed just for posterity... The brilliance is mind boggling

You have no baseline regarding clearance for example the LOD bumper compared to the Blue Ox Tow Plate is with in 1/4 inch of each other and the Rock Hard is also very close. the difference is negligible, but if that is what it takes for you to justify your choices then so be it, just be knowledgeable and honest with your comments.
whether it is a 1/4" or 1.5" it still doesn't change the fact that the bar of the base plate will dig in or be destroyed while my bumper is smooth and will slide on the rocks should it hit...

If it were so necessary then why would they list it as "*Optional" ??? You think theirs is so much more superior compared to the factory brackets that are there? care to explain why?

And actually it is a good business plan...Bad publicity whether it is true or not still hurts companies so why not take the couple hours that probably took to design and make something to counter act that bad publicity...whether it was truly an issue or not...not to mention it is another add-on product they can use to mark up their profits a little more on people like you...
 

lightsout

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LOL, I am sure LOD is laughing their ass off about the "Couple hours" as is their Liability insurer (not)... Really "Optional" is your argument. Why are you and other so opposed to safety when it comes to towing. I assume you do not trust the Muller report either???

By the way of you are towing your rig you do not want contact of any kind to your tow connection whether tow plate or bumper, especially bumper considering the week bumper plate connection. The bumper connection could easily be damaged with rock sliding, the problem with that is would would not be able to tell without removing the bumper and inspecting, whereas a tow plate allows for easy visual inspection at all times. At least the Tow plate can be removed in less than 1/2 hour providing considerable more clearance then ANY of the tow bumpers.

Again Kudos to LOD for their OPTIONAL bracket...
 

AFfiredawg

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LOL, I am sure LOD is laughing their ass off about the "Couple hours" as is their Liability insurer (not)... Really "Optional" is your argument. Why are you and other so opposed to safety when it comes to towing. I assume you do not trust the Muller report either???

By the way of you are towing your rig you do not want contact of any kind to your tow connection whether tow plate or bumper, especially bumper considering the week bumper plate connection. The bumper connection could easily be damaged with rock sliding, the problem with that is would would not be able to tell without removing the bumper and inspecting, whereas a tow plate allows for easy visual inspection at all times. At least the Tow plate can be removed in less than 1/2 hour providing considerable more clearance then ANY of the tow bumpers.

Again Kudos to LOD for their OPTIONAL bracket...
You really truly think that part took more than a few hours to design? That liability insurance (that you previously argued those companies probably didn’t have) you mentioned, wouldn’t let them list it as optional if it were that vital first of all...scraping isn’t gonna hurt it...hard hits could...but I don’t want hard hits period whether I was towing or not...I would not call a baseplate easily removable nor is it meant to be removed on a regular basis. And I don’t know where you are getting more clearance, my aftermarket bumper gives more clearance than the factory steel bumper and the baseplate hangs below that factory bumper...so just take your BS somewhere else
 

lightsout

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You really truly think that part took more than a few hours to design? That liability insurance (that you previously argued those companies probably didn’t have) you mentioned, wouldn’t let them list it as optional if it were that vital first of all...scraping isn’t gonna hurt it...hard hits could...but I don’t want hard hits period whether I was towing or not...I would not call a baseplate easily removable nor is it meant to be removed on a regular basis. And I don’t know where you are getting more clearance, my aftermarket bumper gives more clearance than the factory steel bumper and the baseplate hangs below that factory bumper...so just take your BS somewhere else

Your 1st two sentences is just pure ignorance.

We are not talking factory steel Bumpers as they do not have a tow provision (and for god reason Mopar does not recommend towing from the bumper). If you have actually measured the difference the clearance of the aftermarket bumpers vs the Tow Plates you would not be proven wrong. The Blue ox Tow plate is only 4.5" below the bottom bumper frame bolt whereas the two-able bumpers are lower than that by a fraction

How many base plates have you installed on the JL? Again the Blue OX base plate can be removed and reinstalled under 1/2 hour as it is simply 6 bolts (3 per side) to to the side of the frame that is easily accessed, I could probably have it off in 10 minutes. back on single handed in 1/2 hour much less with two people. All the twoable bumpers have a significant surface below the bottom bumper bolts hence the no difference in clearance, whereas the Stock steel Mopar bumper (and some other non towable bumpers) is not as tall so it would provide much better clearance with tow bar removed. My Barricade bumper without the tow-plate has a couple inches more clearance compared to eh LOD and RH towable bumpers so this is factual and not simply bias.

No one here is talking factory bumpers so not sure why you are injecting that as it is not even relevent. Now if you are using the Mopar bumpers you want to use the maximus 3 tow/plate. Still that tows from the frame and not the weaker bumper base plate.

It is crazy LOD comes out with an great added safety solution for towing and the crowd resist and goes wild with resistance, Maybe I am in COLLUSION with Mopar. LOL
 
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