Faraday Box, for the Key Fobs

[Willys41]

Ravelco Anti-Theft Device
You will never get you jeep stolen

https://www.nohotwire.com/anti-theft-protection-for-jeeps/

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[DirtDevil]

I'm not following here ... are y'all saying that my key fobs that are in my house can be cloned from someone outside of my house?

In a nutshell… What happens thieves buy parts off of Amazon and EBay and build a code grabber/signal amplifier/relay. 1 person with a loop antenna and amplifier can stand on your porch. His buddy with the re-transmitter by your car. This system captures and retransmits your fobs low signal to the one by your car. Door open engine started. Fobs do not have an On/Off switch they are always transmitting. It’s a bit more than that but like I said in a nutshell. There’s a few videos on the net explaining the process. Not much different than the code grabbers of the late 80’s early 90’s

 

[ghorsepower]

I'm not following here ... are y'all saying that my key fobs that are in my house can be cloned from someone outside of my house?

Not cloned... That is a misnomer. Your keyless start/entry key fob has a radio in it that sends data to your jeep when it is physically inside/close to the jeep. This is normal encrypted communication that alot of security has actually gone into so that only your key can start/open your Jeep. Also there is use of rolling key pairs and lots of math to prevent a key being cloned whether in your house or in someones hand.

What someone outside your house CAN DO, using powerful radios and antennas, is to electronically "MOVE" your actual key close to and into the Jeep. This is called a relay attack. It is taking the ACTUAL signal from your ACTUAL key in your house and capturing and replaying it close/inside your Jeep. If when you are home you put your key in a metal box ANY METAL BOX, problem solved. No need to buy a $20 bag from Amazon etc...

That's a relay attack and works on almost ANY KEYLESS car. What others are referring to as well in this thread is the fact that Dodge did in fact leave a huge security hole in most of their products where anyone can program a key with a computer/AUTEL as long as they have physical access to the CANBUS. (Moronic). That has nothing to do with magic $20 bags on Amazon. To fix that you need a IGLA/Tazer/RF Hub Update from Dodge/Disabling Alarm to correct. I am not sure if Jeeps have the RF hub lockout available from Dodge? I have a 22 SS Challenger that i had it done on, amongst other security add-ons, but not sure on my Sport Jeep?? Cost on those two are apples and oranges etc...

 

[NullNomad]

I'm not following here ... are y'all saying that my key fobs that are in my house can be cloned from someone outside of my house?

 

[Mccorm67]

Love the track suits!

 

[NullNomad]

Love the track suits!

track suits = up to no good?

 

[ghorsepower]

Love the track suits!

 

[Zandcwhite]

I've noticed a rash of Dodge and Ram vehicles being stolen in my area. All have keyless Fobs. The latest one was stolen in a couple of seconds, an expensive Dodge Challenger. All signs point to the fob being cloned.
So, I ordered and received a Faraday Box from Amazon, for $15. Its big enough for 6 of our monster key fobs. Now, I can sleep better at night.

I believe they can plug in to the star connector behind the glove box and come the fob without the fob being present with a lap top. There's enough topless/soft top rigs in my area that I'm pretty sure they will pick the soft targets. The dogs go ape shit if you come in my driveway anyway. When traveling, the steel gun lock box works as a Faraday box too and it happens to be conveniently empty when I'm sleeping in the tent. Unfortunately there's only so much you can do, the pull tab in the console still puts it in neutral where they can roll it away quietly onto a trailer and fights out keys or part it out wherever they tow it to.

 

[Vrotfel]

I came here to say Ravelco - somebody posted it already-it’s the best plan for these vehicles.

And a GPS tracker system

 

[6.2Blazer]

How close does "thief 2" need to be to the key fob to grab the signal? I know you have to have the fob pretty close to the vehicle for it to unlock (without physically pushing any buttons on the fob), but also know it has a lot more range in regards to if you hit the remote start or one of the buttons. Not sure if there is an "extra" signal sent when you hit a button versus the keyless entry.
Haven't experimented with this, but know we park a car in our attached garage and hang the fob right inside the door going in the house, so maybe 6' total distance through one wall (drywall on both sides with insulation). The car is obviously not receiving a signal in that situation because it won't unlock unless you go back inside and bring the fob out right next to the car. With that said, the fob is probably 20' from the outside of the house....plus if they stole the car it means they also broke into a locked garage which is more concerning in this situation...

 

[Zandcwhite]

Ravelco Anti-Theft Device
You will never get you jeep stolen

https://www.nohotwire.com/anti-theft-protection-for-jeeps/

There's still the pull tab to put the transmission in neutral in the center console, where they can roll your Jeep on to a trailer and drive away. If they want it bad enough you won't stop them.

 

[NullNomad]

How close does "thief 2" need to be to the key fob to grab the signal? I know you have to have the fob pretty close to the vehicle for it to unlock (without physically pushing any buttons on the fob), but also know it has a lot more range in regards to if you hit the remote start or one of the buttons.

this is a "it depends". the gear being used and the type of fob will impact if its 10' vs 25'+. It's all about amplifying the signal bi-directionally.

this article has details about the one used against Tesla at 15 yards...
https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/n...warned-of-another-theft-enabling-relay-attack

 

[ghorsepower]

How close does "thief 2" need to be to the key fob to grab the signal? I know you have to have the fob pretty close to the vehicle for it to unlock (without physically pushing any buttons on the fob), but also know it has a lot more range in regards to if you hit the remote start or one of the buttons. Not sure if there is an "extra" signal sent when you hit a button versus the keyless entry.
Haven't experimented with this, but know we park a car in our attached garage and hang the fob right inside the door going in the house, so maybe 6' total distance through one wall (drywall on both sides with insulation). The car is obviously not receiving a signal in that situation because it won't unlock unless you go back inside and bring the fob out right next to the car. With that said, the fob is probably 20' from the outside of the house....plus if they stole the car it means they also broke into a locked garage which is more concerning in this situation...

"Well it depends"
The distance the key and car can or cant interact is moot. The antennas and power they use are way more than your fob and car use. DO NOT HANG YOUR KEYS ON AN OUTER WALL if you are concerned this could happen to you. The place you described where you hang your keys is where 90% of people do and that's where one would look. These types of attacks are rare mind you. But if you are worried about it then throw your keys in a metal box or hang them in a closed metal box by the door. If you aren't worried then keep doing what you are doing.

Layers of defense matter and in the end it's whatever makes you sleep at night. A garage is a decent layer. But garage openers are wayyyy less secure that key fobs. Most can simply be sniffed and replayed FOREVER or at least in the next 10 or so key presses. It all depends on what you think is safe for you in your situation. This risk assessment is why many cars are stolen. People think it won't happen to them etc... Probably won't, but might?

I have done physical and electronic/computer security as a living for decades and most security is basically obscurity in the end. Anything can be defeated and it's a time/convenience trade-off you are making with criminals to protect anything. If it's more convenient for you it's more convenient for them. Taking a few seconds to add layers can add seconds to minutes to gum up their plans or even make them keep walking looking for the easier target. End rant

 

[ghorsepower]

this is a "it depends". the gear being used and the type of fob will impact if its 10' vs 25'+. It's all about amplifying the signal bi-directionally.

this article has details about the one used against Tesla at 15 yards...
https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/n...warned-of-another-theft-enabling-relay-attack

My rant was too long

 

[NullNomad]

My rant was too long

But it was a good rant! I would even say a worth while rant.

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