Choosing the right power train

[jlw33]

I bought a JL 2d Sport S in 2019 and have run it hard on and off-road. I need to upgrade to a 4-door for more space. There are a ton of threads on, but summarizing my findings below.

I live in LA and commute about 10 miles / day. LA is all stop and go. My off-roading is longer drives to get to trails in Big Bear, Gorman, Sierras, and occasionally out to Utah / Arizona. I'm looking to buy a Rubicon I can own for 8-10 years at least and customize for my needs, have some adventures and make some great memories in, but will be my daily driver and only vehicle.

Hoping you guys can help me think thru the right power train selection. I lean towards the 4xe for these reasons:

- This is the ideal platform for me based on my commute / daily driver needs. Unfortunately, I work a lot and spend a lot more time day dreaming about camping / off-roading trips then actually driving offroad. There will definitely be a meaningful savings in fuel
- Test drives were very fun, even coming from a peppy 2.0 light weight two door that drives like a go-kart
- More power and torque than anything short of a 392
- $10.5K rebates taken upfront on a lease - honestly one of the primary reasons

Here are my concerns:
- Seems like there's a disproportionate amount of negative feedback on forums / social media, over time service departments will get more familiar and effective, but at the end of the day it is a less proven system with more points of failure
- New technology, degrading battery (even if limited), and future reputation (to be determined) may mean much lower resale value. Will there be a 50 mile range 4xe in 2 years?

Do I just send it and take the discount (which makes it the cheapest Rubicon off the lot) or pivot to a v6 or 2.0 turbo to have a better shot at longevity? No promises I don't get unlucky with an ICE, but the odds have to be at least a little bitter.

People will say the lease is great to de-risk some of the concerns, but they must not be off-roading their vehicle right? I don't intend to wait three years to start doing some light mods and don't want to baby it on the trails for that long either.

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[JINO]

Ugh, I hate and hated living in los angeles. Fucking hated the traffic with a passion.

Is it possible for you to have a 2nd vehicle as a dialy driver? Maybe a cheap beater car..

Personally, I got myself the ecodiesel. Love the power it has, and the milage.

 

[Philly_]

If it’s something you’re planning to keep for 10 years, I would pass on the hybrid. If it’s a 3-5 year vehicle, it sounds like it would be great for your use case.

In all honesty, I’m not sold on electric or hybrids in general, but they do have their purpose and make great city commuters.

For a 10-year vehicle, I wouldn’t hesitate on the 3.6L or 2.0L. I was skeptical of the 2.0L for a long time before buying, but I’ve been enjoying mine thoroughly for the past year. It’s a great little engine and puts out more power than I’ll ever need both on and off road.

I lean towards 2.0L because of the slightly better mileage and more torque. The 3.6L is great as well, but I have so much more fun driving that little turbo. Only way I would trade my 2.0L for the 3.6L is for a manual transmission.

 

[2nd 392]

Couple questions— do you get the tax rebate with a lease? If not, it’s just a 3K discount. If yes, and you have the tax liabilities to use it take the $18K in bribes. Also if not, the off idle torque of a diesel would be advantageous for both drivability and mileage in often stop and crawl traffic, if you can still find one. Travel may be necessary, or lightly used?

 

[aldo98229]

A few thoughts:

• Negativity towards 4Xe: The vast majority of the negativity around eTorque and 4Xe comes from people who don’t even own these technologies. We live in a time when everyone, myself included, has a keyboard and an opinion, and public forums reflect this
• Wrangler resale values and leasing: I always felt that Wrangler was a lousy vehicle to lease because of its amazing resale. HOWEVER, with Stellantis rising prices out of control, Wrangler’s stellar resale is not going to last forever. Rapidly falling used Wrangler prices, and Wrangler sales dropping well below 200,000 units/year for the first time in decades, in my opinion are early signs that Wrangler’s era of legendary resale values is coming to an end. I still wouldn’t lease a vehicle that you plan to own for 10+ years. You will end up paying a lot more in finance charges in the long run. But leasing is looking increasingly viable as Stellantis continues to destroy Wrangler’s resale value
• Poor dealer service: your concerns about poor dealer service are warranted. This has become an industry-wide problem that I don’t see improving any time soon. I believe that modern automobiles have reached a level of complexity that exceeds the capacity of the traditional dealer, and of the factory warranty, to repair and keep on the road. In this respect, 4Xe only promises to be a major headache, especially with Jeep dealers sitting at the bottom of the industry in customer treatment.

Hope these help.

Good luck.

 

[Shibadog]

I’d be tempted by the 4XE, but given the complexity of the system and lack of knowledge of long term reliability I’d be a tad concerned. I too hate LA traffic-bloody awful. Amazes me that California is pushing electric so hard when their power grid can’t keep up with existing demand, but I digress. One question-how many miles do you actually drive/year? If that numbers’ low I’d be earning toward the 2.0. Do your homework. Good luck.

 

[aldo98229]

Unfortunately, LA-style congestion is now the norm everywhere: from Houston to Seattle, from Chicago to Dallas, from DC to Phoenix, from Salt Lake City to Miami, from Denver to Atlanta.

 

[ChuckQue]

I bought a JL 2d Sport S in 2019 and have run it hard on and off-road. I need to upgrade to a 4-door for more space. There are a ton of threads on, but summarizing my findings below.

I live in LA and commute about 10 miles / day. LA is all stop and go. My off-roading is longer drives to get to trails in Big Bear, Gorman, Sierras, and occasionally out to Utah / Arizona. I'm looking to buy a Rubicon I can own for 8-10 years at least and customize for my needs, have some adventures and make some great memories in, but will be my daily driver and only vehicle.

Hoping you guys can help me think thru the right power train selection. I lean towards the 4xe for these reasons:

- This is the ideal platform for me based on my commute / daily driver needs. Unfortunately, I work a lot and spend a lot more time day dreaming about camping / off-roading trips then actually driving offroad. There will definitely be a meaningful savings in fuel
- Test drives were very fun, even coming from a peppy 2.0 light weight two door that drives like a go-kart
- More power and torque than anything short of a 392
- $10.5K rebates taken upfront on a lease - honestly one of the primary reasons

Here are my concerns:
- Seems like there's a disproportionate amount of negative feedback on forums / social media, over time service departments will get more familiar and effective, but at the end of the day it is a less proven system with more points of failure
- New technology, degrading battery (even if limited), and future reputation (to be determined) may mean much lower resale value. Will there be a 50 mile range 4xe in 2 years?

Do I just send it and take the discount (which makes it the cheapest Rubicon off the lot) or pivot to a v6 or 2.0 turbo to have a better shot at longevity? No promises I don't get unlucky with an ICE, but the odds have to be at least a little bitter.

People will say the lease is great to de-risk some of the concerns, but they must not be off-roading their vehicle right? I don't intend to wait three years to start doing some light mods and don't want to baby it on the trails for that long either.

Used Gen 3 ecodiesel all the way.

 

[Bzinsky]

The 4xe is not complicated

Jeep used a trans from ZF with a built in electric motor, and they shoved a 400lb battery under the rear seats. Added a cooling system and a few buttons. Nearly everything else is regular jeep.

That’s why it gets 1.3 miles per kwh. So bad it’s rivaled only by the hummer EV, which needed a 220kwh battery, weighs 9k lbs, and costs over $100k because of this.
The wrangler is limited by physics, not by some EV tech.

Any EV wrangler in the future will not have solid axles. Nor will it be an aerodynamic brick. Which means it won’t be a wrangler.

Safe to say the 4xe isn’t going to be made obsolete any time soon. The most they could do is upgrade the battery.

 

[PatriotX]

I read a lot of neg comments, mostly by those ‘educated’ about the 4xe by means largely outside ownership.

I purchased the 4xe after driving all of the available powertrains, and coming from a Trackhawk.

This is truly the Goldilocks of the Wrangler lineup. I have put 16k miles on it in 10 months, taken it wheeling many times, lived in the rooftop tent…it’s a great Jeep.

There are many aftermarket [AND FACTORY] accessories that aren’t compatible with the 4xe - yet. Apart from the Mopar brake controller, I have had zero issues with any of my installed mods - electrical or mechanical.

I plan on keeping this one for a while. A Mopar 8yr unlimited mileage warranty slid over nicely from the Trackhawk for almost no money, and great peace of mind.

Your use case sounds like a decent one for the 4xe, good luck with your choice.

 

[jlw33]

Is it possible for you to have a 2nd vehicle as a dialy driver? Maybe a cheap beater car..

Thought about this. Negatives (purchase price, maintenance, street parking logistics) would end up offsetting any benefits.

Couple questions— do you get the tax rebate with a lease? If not, it’s just a 3K discount. If yes, and you have the tax liabilities to use it take the $18K in bribes. Also if not, the off idle torque of a diesel would be advantageous for both drivability and mileage in often stop and crawl traffic, if you can still find one. Travel may be necessary, or lightly used?

The benefit of the lease is that the bank gets the tax rebates automatically and passes them directly to the consumer upfront (vs. waiting to file your taxes and seeing you qualify). It's currently $7.5K in federal + $3.0K in CARB thru Feb 28, but that may change going forward.

• Wrangler resale values and leasing: I always felt that Wrangler was a lousy vehicle to lease because of its amazing resale. HOWEVER, with Stellantis rising prices out of control, Wrangler’s stellar resale is not going to last forever. Rapidly falling used Wrangler prices, and Wrangler sales dropping well below 200,000 units/year for the first time in decades, in my opinion are early signs that Wrangler’s era of legendary resale values is coming to an end. I still wouldn’t lease a vehicle that you plan to own for 10+ years. You will end up paying a lot more in finance charges in the long run. But leasing is looking increasingly viable as Stellantis continues to destroy Wrangler’s resale value

Exactly this. They are generally selling way more JLs than JKs because the "jeep" lifestyle has been made trendy by influencers. That is why Ford brought back the Bronco. The Wrangler 4xe is the #1 best selling PHEV SUV in the US. Wranglers will always have better resale value than other vehicles, but the difference will shrink because there are more used vehicle options and a flooded market for people that temporarily want an instagram post for one trip to Zion and then realize they don't actually want a Jeep.

My plan would be to use the lease to make sure I get the $10K of rebates upfront, and then I can buyout the lease and get a traditional loan for better financing charges within a year.

Safe to say the 4xe isn’t going to be made obsolete any time soon. The most they could do is upgrade the battery.

This is a good point. My only concern is if they upgrade from a 20 mile range to a 50 mile range within the next couple years. 50 would be perfect for most Americans.

 

[aldo98229]

Exactly this. They are generally selling way more JLs than JKs because the "jeep" lifestyle has been made trendy by influencers. That is why Ford brought back the Bronco. The Wrangler 4xe is the #1 best selling PHEV SUV in the US. Wranglers will always have better resale value than other vehicles, but the difference will shrink because there are more used vehicle options and a flooded market for people that temporarily want an instagram post for one trip to Zion and then realize they don't actually want a Jeep.

My plan would be to use the lease to make sure I get the $10K of rebates upfront, and then I can buyout the lease and get a traditional loan for better financing charges within a year.

Keep in mind, though, that they way things are going, there’s a very good —and growing— possibility that when your lease ends, your Wrangler’s market value will be well below the residual estimated at the start of the lease.

 

[John VonJeep]

Ugh, I hate and hated living in los angeles. Fucking hated the traffic with a passion.

Is it possible for you to have a 2nd vehicle as a dialy driver? Maybe a cheap beater car..

Personally, I got myself the ecodiesel. Love the power it has, and the milage.

I don’t live in LA, but I do have a little Kia Rio hatchback with a manual transmission that I use as a daily driver. It’s basic as hell (crank windows, no cruise) but cheap as chips to run. I recently needed new tires and paid $380 for all four, installed. 10-year power train warranty. 130 hp is fine with a 6-speed and only 2,500 lbs to drag around. I love the little sucker for urban combat.

 

[Bzinsky]

Thought about this. Negatives (purchase price, maintenance, street parking logistics) would end up offsetting any benefits.



The benefit of the lease is that the bank gets the tax rebates automatically and passes them directly to the consumer upfront (vs. waiting to file your taxes and seeing you qualify). It's currently $7.5K in federal + $3.0K in CARB thru Feb 28, but that may change going forward.



Exactly this. They are generally selling way more JLs than JKs because the "jeep" lifestyle has been made trendy by influencers. That is why Ford brought back the Bronco. The Wrangler 4xe is the #1 best selling PHEV SUV in the US. Wranglers will always have better resale value than other vehicles, but the difference will shrink because there are more used vehicle options and a flooded market for people that temporarily want an instagram post for one trip to Zion and then realize they don't actually want a Jeep.

My plan would be to use the lease to make sure I get the $10K of rebates upfront, and then I can buyout the lease and get a traditional loan for better financing charges within a year.




This is a good point. My only concern is if they upgrade from a 20 mile range to a 50 mile range within the next couple years. 50 would be perfect for most Americans.

I mean the range isn’t that critical. I feel like because of the EV revolution people really care about range. And yeah it matters A LOT in a full EV. PHEV’s have another source of power though. A 50 mile range would just make it a little cheaper to drive. It wouldn’t really change anything else.

 

[jlw33]

Keep in mind, though, that they way things are going, there’s a very good —and growing— possibility that when your lease ends, your Wrangler’s market value will be well below the residual estimated at the start of the lease.

Yeah totally agree - we're saying the same thing. I think the resale value for JLs generally, and 4xes in particular, may be much lower than they were for JKs. Regardless of lease or buy, it could depreciate much faster than we expect based on how JKs depreciated. The question is how much worse off they will be if at all. It's all a guess at this point, but interested what other folks are thinking about resale values.

And the lease to buyout within a year is a separate point, assuming I get comfortable with a 4xe in the first place. I'm effectively buying, just using the lease temporarily (1 year or less) to lock in the $10.5K of rebates.

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