Battery issue , no start, no power.

[andrei]

Need help, jeep stranded middle of nowhere, hopefully someone is awake. Using phone for as long as it will last.

Neg cable has been disconnected for 8 hours. When reconnected, Jeep started no problem, but warning came on that jeep will shut off soon. After 10 minutes of drive, lost power steering and one by one everything began shut off before engine cuts off.

Currently I have no signs of life, not a single light.
Disconnected aux batt neg cable, nothing.
Tried trick with F42 fuze (alternative to n1 - n2 bypass), nothing .

Voltmeter readings:
Main battery reads 12.88, given a ride to autozone and it passed with flying colors there.

With main batt disconnected:
Pos and main ground 10.12 v
Pos and aux ground - 4.95 v (that is negative)

With main disconnected, unintentionally touched AC tube with main groubd, small spark and jeep came to to life, everything works but no crank.
Connected pos to main, touched AC tube again with main ground, same thing and no crank.
Have not tried touching with aux ground.

Nothing follows, surfing web for solutions.

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[andrei]

Forgot to add, tried to jump start with another vehicle, no effect no signs of life.

 

[alphawolff]

Your z-case fuse is blown at the N3 post. You can use the override on a jump box while attached to the fuse box post to force power into the system. Be aware your alternator will not be able to charge the vehicle, and it'll run completely off the jump box until it dies.

Here is a post talking about the fuse:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/alert-high-amp-fuse-array-related.65085/

The fuse takes about five minutes to replace with a deep 10mm socket and a pocket screw driver. Your aux battery is completely flat, and may be able to be recharged. Hard to say.

TEMPORARY WORKAROUND: PULL THE N3 LEAD OFF ITS LOCATION AND MOVE IT TO EITHER SIDE. THE N4 SHOULD BE OPEN AND AVAILABLE. N1 = PRIMARY FUSE POST, N2 = JUST BEHIND IT (TOWARD REAR OF VEHICLE), N3 AFTER THAT. YOU MAY NEED TO FORCE THE LEAD ONTO A DIFFERENT POST, AS THEY ARE KEYED FOR EACH LOCATION. FORCE IT DOWN AND TIGHTEN IT FULLY. IF THE AUX HAS A BIT OF JUICE LEFT THE VEHICLE SHOULD START AFTER TWO ATTEMPTS. IF IT DOESN'T PULL F42 AND RE-TRY.


To clarify this insanity: The primary battery goes to the fuse box (but doesnt touch anything important), out through the n3 fuse (which is blown), through the PCR, to then PIGGYBACK the aux batteries positive terminal which leads back to the primary fuse box post. When that n3 fuse blows the primary battery can no longer touch the fuse box and power the system. It also means the alternator, which is another fuse on that block, can no longer reach the aux battery. This means the entire vehicle is thus being powered on the 200CCA aux battery without the ability to charge it. It doesn't last long before it dies.

This allows the aux battery to be isolated during ESS events, while the primary battery is still connected to the starter via that fuse block. All sound and dandy until the fuse going to the aux battery fails, isolating it permanently. I have absolutely no idea while this fuse exits.

 

[nkyjeep]

z-case fuse have to get from dealer or order online, but in any case a few days of waiting so leave jeep and get ride home.

 

[alphawolff]

z-case fuse have to get from dealer or order online, but in any case a few days of waiting so leave jeep and get ride home.

Just replying since I updated my post, but if this happens to you you can force the n3 lead onto a different post to bypass the fuse. Usually n4 is open and available. Using a jumper to another post (the n1 is ideal) also works.

 

[andrei]

Your z-case fuse is blown at the N3 post. You can use the override on a jump box while attached to the fuse box post to force power into the system. Be aware your alternator will not be able to charge the vehicle, and it'll run completely off the jump box until it dies.

Here is a post talking about the fuse:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/alert-high-amp-fuse-array-related.65085/

The fuse takes about five minutes to replace with a deep 10mm socket and a pocket screw driver. Your aux battery is completely flat, and may be able to be recharged. Hard to say.

TEMPORARY WORKAROUND: PULL THE N3 LEAD OFF ITS LOCATION AND MOVE IT TO EITHER SIDE. THE N4 SHOULD BE OPEN AND AVAILABLE. N1 = PRIMARY FUSE POST, N2 = JUST BEHIND IT (TOWARD REAR OF VEHICLE), N3 AFTER THAT. YOU MAY NEED TO FORCE THE LEAD ONTO A DIFFERENT POST, AS THEY ARE KEYED FOR EACH LOCATION. FORCE IT DOWN AND TIGHTEN IT FULLY. IF THE AUX HAS A BIT OF JUICE LEFT THE VEHICLE SHOULD START AFTER TWO ATTEMPTS. IF IT DOESN'T PULL F42 AND RE-TRY.


To clarify this insanity: The primary battery goes to the fuse box (but doesnt touch anything important), out through the n3 fuse (which is blown), through the PCR, to then PIGGYBACK the aux batteries positive terminal which leads back to the primary fuse box post. When that n3 fuse blows the primary battery can no longer touch the fuse box and power the system. It also means the alternator, which is another fuse on that block, can no longer reach the aux battery. This means the entire vehicle is thus being powered on the 200CCA aux battery without the ability to charge it. It doesn't last long before it dies.

This allows the aux battery to be isolated during ESS events, while the primary battery is still connected to the starter via that fuse block. All sound and dandy until the fuse going to the aux battery fails, isolating it permanently. I have absolutely no idea while this fuse exits.

On it , thank you, while surfing through I misunderstood that F42 fuse trick was the work around.

That is simply a aux bypass. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jumperless-aux-battery-bypass.95945/

 

[alphawolff]

On it , thank you, while surfing through I misunderstood that F42 fuse trick was the work around.

That is simply a aux bypass. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jumperless-aux-battery-bypass.95945/

Pulling f42 simply disables the PCR relay from functioning. This means the batteries are always in parallel together. It increases battery life by never isolating and draining the aux. If N3 blows they can still be isolated.

The issue with the f42 trick for this purpose is if you continue to use stop start it'll eventually throw warning lights as it'll detect the PCR isn't functioning correctly. Works fine if you never use it, though. It still has the n3 fuse as a possible failure point but there's really only ever a fuse-popping-load during ESS events while the PCR is actuating.



Here's a picture of that fuse block. Just swap the 3rd lead over to that open 4th slot. #1 is on the far right in the picture. You WILL have to force it down. Just make sure you tighten it fully and it isn't loose. The pressure from going through the plastic key way might give the impression it's tight when it isn't. Wiggle test it.

Keyways I'm talking about. As you can see they're different shapes:

As you can see in the below picture N3 and N4 are both 150a fuses so you shouldn't have to worry about it blowing. The B+ you see is the input from the primary battery.

 

[andrei]

@alphawolff @nkyjeep

MADE IT!
13h 17m of digging in this JL, my old TJ would be jelly.

It was N3. Initially it did not work, i tried N4 and N1 - nothing, not even a spark. Almost called it a night, and then decided to reconnect the aux battery, VOLA! Sparks, light, crank, i left all the tools in the field and drove while there is still juice in the batteries.

Simply the best!
PM me your details, any $100 gift card is on me. Im off to bed.

 

[VKSheridan]

Good job Alphawolff! This is an excellent display of Jeep camaraderie. You have my respects. Now go to bed, you got up wayyyyyy too early!

 

[alphawolff]

@alphawolff @nkyjeep

MADE IT!
13h 17m of digging in this JL, my old TJ would be jelly.

It was N3. Initially it did not work, i tried N4 and N1 - nothing, not even a spark. Almost called it a night, and then decided to reconnect the aux battery, VOLA! Sparks, light, crank, i left all the tools in the field and drove while there is still juice in the batteries.

Simply the best!
PM me your details, any $100 gift card is on me. Im off to bed.

Haha, glad it worked and you made it home. Keep the $100 for the fuse.

And yeah, that lead goes through the aux battery so it needs to be connected in order for the system to work. Good job realizing it!

 

[ScotM]

I found using a zip tie really made it easier to remove the fuse arrsy

 

[Cuyose]

I have this issue, tried everything, but the N3 isnt my issue, even replaced the fuse array, which tested fine anyhow. Still no power. When I hook up a portable jumper, still no power at all, when I hook up a 10 Amp charger, I get repeated horn honks, but no power to interior or anything. main battery is 100%

 

[rickinAZ]

Good job Alphawolff! This is an excellent display of Jeep camaraderie. You have my respects. Now go to bed, you got up wayyyyyy too early!

I'm just reading this thread for the first time. How do you get stranded in the middle of nowhere (in the middle of the night, no less) when, at some point, there was (evidently) another vehicle around to try jumpstarting the OP's Jeep? Did they just abandon him in the boonies after the unsuccessful jumpstart? Am I missing a key piece to this seven month old story?

 

[VKSheridan]

I'm just reading this thread for the first time. How do you get stranded in the middle of nowhere (in the middle of the night, no less) when, at some point, there was (evidently) another vehicle around to try jumpstarting the OP's Jeep? Did they just abandon him in the boonies after the unsuccessful jumpstart? Am I missing a key piece to this seven month old story?

You got all that out of my note commending a fellow forum contributor? LOL

 

[rickinAZ]

You got all that out of my note commending a fellow forum contributor? LOL

Actually, for whatever reason, your point about camaraderie triggered this thought. As you correctly noted, it's nice when we help each other, so it stood in sharp contrast that the jumpstarter motorist appeared to abandon the OP. In any case, trying to understand my meandering thought process can tend to be challenging from time to time.

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