Article: Possible fix for 3.6

[Willys41]

Larry, which 5w40?

I have always use Valvoline sense my race care days. Over 45 years ago.

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[roaniecowpony]

I have always use Valvoline sense my race care days. Over 45 years ago.

We ran Valvoline Racing in the mid 70s, until we got some dyno information from....I think T-Willy at Isky's. He said their engine was foaming the oil. They switched over to Kendall GT and the foaming was almost nothing. We switched and never looked back. Of course, oils have come a long way since then.

The old guys that started SCTA, SEMA and such are starting to pass. I hear Isky is still kicking. He, Luther, and T-Willy would have dinner in the bowling alley diner I used to eat at with a friend. Nick Arias kids ran their dad's business into the ground. They were just down the street from a shop I had. Mondello was around the corner. We used to see Joe Pisano at dinner with his buddies decades ago. My old boss, Bob Mullen, the cylinder head guy, passed away. I machined the exhaust ports and plate for a set of Cleveland heads for Bob Glidden while at Mullen & Co. Long time ago.

 

[TheRaven]

I have maybe half a million miles on LS and LT engines. None of them shit the bed. One is still chugging along well beyond 300k and 25 years. But one little foray into the 3.6L and it shits the bed at 34K miles. A friend with a jeep shop who also races and recreates in jeeps admitted these engines are not all that reliable. Just my experience. YMMV

Yeah this is the only place i've heard someone claim that the LS motors were anything but virtually bulletproof. Trying to compare the Pentastar...or really any FCA motor short of the 5.7l Hemi, to the LS motors is ridiculous. LS motors were pre-DoD, and about as close as you could get to bulletproof in a modern NA motor. Even the Gen IV and Gen V motors are pretty much the same once you remove the DoD-style lifters.

Talk to any GM tech and he's going to tell you about GM engine problems...because that's what he sees...but that's just one tech (or even just ten techs if you talk to ten)...millions of LS motors have been built. Those techs have only seen the few that broke.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Yeah this is the only place i've heard someone claim that the LS motors were anything but virtually bulletproof. Trying to compare the Pentastar...or really any FCA motor short of the 5.7l Hemi, to the LS motors is ridiculous. LS motors were pre-DoD, and about as close as you could get to bulletproof in a modern NA motor. Even the Gen IV and Gen V motors are pretty much the same once you remove the DoD-style lifters.

Talk to any GM tech and he's going to tell you about GM engine problems...because that's what he sees...but that's just one tech (or even just ten techs if you talk to ten)...millions of LS motors have been built. Those techs have only seen the few that broke.

The AFM really is probably the biggest issue with those engines they put it on. I had some with and some without. I never had a problem with AFM lifters, but my brother bought my 08 truck with a L76 6.0 that eventually killed the lifters well out past 300k miles. In my mind, if I get to 200k miles with an engine without major internal failures, I wouldn't complain. The Pentastar seems overly complex and very sketchy on reliability. When you break it down, it's like a Cosworth from days of yesteryear.

 

[mwilk012]

in the scrap heap.

Yes, people are more likely to repair an expensive V8 with large aftermarket support for rebuilding and upgrading. Of course. Plus, the V6 being more common by the raw numbers will result in more failures. “Per capita” I don’t believe their rate of failure is any higher than a vortec 5.3.

 

[Willys41]

We ran Valvoline Racing in the mid 70s, until we got some dyno information from....I think T-Willy at Isky's. He said their engine was foaming the oil. They switched over to Kendall GT and the foaming was almost nothing. We switched and never looked back. Of course, oils have come a long way since then.

The old guys that started SCTA, SEMA and such are starting to pass. I hear Isky is still kicking. He, Luther, and T-Willy would have dinner in the bowling alley diner I used to eat at with a friend. Nick Arias kids ran their dad's business into the ground. They were just down the street from a shop I had. Mondello was around the corner. We used to see Joe Pisano at dinner with his buddies decades ago. My old boss, Bob Mullen, the cylinder head guy, passed away. I machined the exhaust ports and plate for a set of Cleveland heads for Bob Glidden while at Mullen & Co. Long time ago.

I have used Kendall in the past also.
I stuck with Valvoline because I had 5psi higher oil pressure when hot in my 1966 Chevy Chevelle 350cid. drag car.Put that was a long long time ago.

 

[mwilk012]

The AFM really is probably the biggest issue with those engines they put it on. I had some with and some without. I never had a problem with AFM lifters, but my brother bought my 08 truck with a L76 6.0 that eventually killed the lifters well out past 300k miles. In my mind, if I get to 200k miles with an engine without major internal failures, I wouldn't complain. The Pentastar seems overly complex and very sketchy on reliability. When you break it down, it's like a Cosworth from days of yesteryear.

tell that to this 6.0L. 6.0’s don’t have AFM.

 

[roaniecowpony]

tell that to this 6.0L. 6.0’s don’t have AFM.

Some 6.0s had AFM. I had one with and one without. From the varnish on that lifter, it's likely the hydraulic piston got sticky and hammered that roller. Neglect, cheap oil, etc., could all be causes. I never saw varnish in any of the LS engines I had, but I ran M1 in all from day one.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I have always use Valvoline sense my race care days. Over 45 years ago.

The more I read about that oil, the more I like it. Very good HTHS.

 

[mwilk012]

Some 6.0s had AFM. I had one with and one without. From the varnish on that lifter, it's likely the hydraulic piston got sticky and hammered that roller. Neglect, cheap oil, etc., could all be causes. I never saw varnish in any of the LS engines I had, but I ran M1 in all from day one.

The plastic basket actually broke on this one, the litter rotated sideways and the cam is in much better shape than your expect. Nobody takes neurotic care of their engines like forum people. It doesn’t make much difference.

 

[roaniecowpony]

... Nobody takes neurotic care of their engines like forum people. It doesn’t make much difference.

Not until you have a claim with a shop, then it's all so critical.

 

[mwilk012]

I’ve never asked for oil change records to warranty anything.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

I'm going to say that the biggest oil related issues are that the majority of people let others do the oil change. Pull into the dealer or the quick change place, and out in less than an hour, trusting that you have the proper amount of the proper oil and a new filter.

What happens more often than any would like to believe is that you get whatever bulk oil is in the barrel. The tech believes what the setting knob says for amount of quarts, that is if it was checked form the last vehicle it was used on. The pan drain was removed and replaced with an impact. The pan wasn't allowed to fully drain. And, if you have a 3.6, a big wrench was used to replace the oil filter cap way too tight, and the filter O rings weren't put on properly, if at all.

Also, how many of you check the dipstick before driving away, or even at all between oil changes?

That having been said, no one but me does maintenance on my Jeep. It's had 5w30 full synthetic since the first change at 2k miles. And even though the cap for the oil filter is a 24mm, you don't need to use a big ol' wrench and tighten it down hard.

 

[mwilk012]

I'm going to say that the biggest oil related issues are that the majority of people let others do the oil change. Pull into the dealer or the quick change place, and out in less than an hour, trusting that you have the proper amount of the proper oil and a new filter.

What happens more often than any would like to believe is that you get whatever bulk oil is in the barrel. The tech believes what the setting knob says for amount of quarts, that is if it was checked form the last vehicle it was used on. The pan drain was removed and replaced with an impact. The pan wasn't allowed to fully drain. And, if you have a 3.6, a big wrench was used to replace the oil filter cap way too tight, and the filter O rings weren't put on properly, if at all.

Also, how many of you check the dipstick before driving away, or even at all between oil changes?

That having been said, no one but me does maintenance on my Jeep. It's had 5w30 full synthetic since the first change at 2k miles. Ans even though the cap for the oil filter is a 24mm, you don't need to use a big ol' wrench and tighten it down hard.

This is the type of thing you would like to believe, yes. Real issues? No, not really. Your oil filter housing is going to leak anyway. Your rocker arms are going to wear away the cam lobes anyway. You might save yourself from an inconvenient oil filter or drain plug leak, but that’s about it. The vast majority of professionals are honest and good.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Yes, people are more likely to repair an expensive V8 with large aftermarket support for rebuilding and upgrading. Of course. Plus, the V6 being more common by the raw numbers will result in more failures. “Per capita” I don’t believe their rate of failure is any higher than a vortec 5.3.

I don't have production numbers for the LS/LT engines, but the variations of the V6 Pentastar are something the other side of 12 mil.

As for failure rate, I only know I have ~500,000 on LS/LT engines and 0 failures and 34,454 on the V6 Pentastar with 1 catastrophic failure. So, I have an axe and I'm grinding it.

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