5W 30 versus 0W 20

[Old Dogger]

For those that are not sure which viscosity to run, then why not just go to 0W30? We run 5w30, because we are in hot as hell Phoenix. If I lived in a milder climate, we would run 0W30.

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[Odyssey USA]

For those that are not sure which viscosity to run, then why not just go to 0W30? We run 5w30, because we are in hot as hell Phoenix. If I lived in a milder climate, we would run 0W30.

Yup, technology.

 

[Heimkehr]

A trusted mechanic told me that the change to 0W-20 was not just made to improve fuel economy but also to reduce cylinder scoring due to tighter piston tolerances in the newer engines.

An oil's viscosity rating can indeed suggest the tolerances to which an engine was designed and built. Our Hondas have a single oil specification, 0W-20. The motorcycles, both air-cooled, do well with 20W-50.

I dont give a rats patooty what the manual says

As one of those weirdos who actually reads the Owner's Manuals for my vehicles, my distrust settled in pretty quickly when I read that the 850's fluid was a "Lifetime Fill".

Finding and reading ZF's published documentation on the matter put the lie to the manual's text pretty quickly. ZF calls for a new filter and fluid every 60K miles or so. That's how I've proceeded...by myself, since my selling dealer refused to perform the work. Fair enough. Those C-notes can stay in my pocket.

 

[LukeDagny]

An oil's viscosity rating can indeed suggest the tolerances to which an engine was designed and built. Our Hondas have a single oil specification, 0W-20. The motorcycles, both air-cooled, do well with 20W-50.



As one of those weirdos who actually reads the Owner's Manuals for my vehicles, my distrust settled in pretty quickly when I read that the 850's fluid was a "Lifetime Fill".

Finding and reading ZF's published documentation on the matter put the lie to the manual's text pretty quickly. ZF calls for a new filter and fluid every 60K miles or so. That's how I've proceeded...by myself, since my selling dealer refused to perform the work. Fair enough. Those C-notes can stay in my pocket.

You're not the only one that reads their owner's manual I used to own a Toyota Tundra that had "Lifetime Fill" transmission. It was lifetime, unless you towed. You could not drain it completely, and only changed out maybe 50% of the fluid when drained.

It called for a WS type ATF. WS stoof for World Standard. My understanding, manufacturer's were going to be judged/taxed/held accountable for the fluid use during the lifetime of a vehicle. Sealing them for life reduced the amount of fluid used. Kind of like using lower viscosity oil to increase fuel economy.

 

[CarbonSteel]

They say when oil is being used, there's a battle between oxidation and shearing going on. Oxidation thickens, shearing thins and shearing is faster. With HPL No VII and Super Car, there is no shearing so oxidation slowly thickens the oil. That BITOG guy Overkill's UOA's are available

This must apply only to HPL (which is telling). No other major brand oil that I have used does this--especially in direct injected engines.

 

[CarbonSteel]

They said this on BITOG. 0w becomes 5w and 5w becomes 10w. Used 0w20 oil is no longer 0w20, it is something like 5w16.

Although I respect most on BITOG, I have ran nearly 100 UOAs in my lifetime and have never seen that behavior--either recorded or pointed out. Unless ran far past usable life, oil does not thicken...

 

[CarbonSteel]

For those that are not sure which viscosity to run, then why not just go to 0W30? We run 5w30, because we are in hot as hell Phoenix. If I lived in a milder climate, we would run 0W30.

You can run 0W-30 year round and in any climate--hot or cold.

The number to the left of the W indicates cold weather performance and has nothing to do with high ambient temperatures like in Phoenix.

The number to the right of the W is the high temperature performance and 30 is 30 no matter what the first number is.

I would be running M1 ESP 0W-30 in Phoenix...

 

[azwjowner]

For those that are not sure which viscosity to run, then why not just go to 0W30? We run 5w30, because we are in hot as hell Phoenix. If I lived in a milder climate, we would run 0W30.

The engine reaches the same operating temperature no matter where you are (save somewhere exceptionally cold like northern Canada), so I've never understood this line of thinking.

 

[Old Dogger]

The engine reaches the same operating temperature no matter where you are (save somewhere exceptionally cold like northern Canada), so I've never understood this line of thinking.

I answered this question in the past. I thought that it was to you, but maybe somebody else.
The MOPAR OEM thermostat will approx. start to open at 203° and fully open at 215°. So that is the normal engine temp operating range. So, if one engine cooling system has been maintained, so that is the range that it should be seen as driving down the highway. It really doesn't matter if it is 30° out or 80° outside ambient temperature. But what happens when it gets somewhat out of the cooling systems capacity, in severe hot weather. Say a 100° ambient or more. The engine coolant temp is going to increase, which is O.K., because the factory states that cooling temps are O.K., up to 230° or somewhat higher. Engine oil temperature run about 10 to 15° higher than coolant temps. So, your engine oil temp is going to be running higher temps on a 100° plus outside ambient, verses a 30° to 80° day. Some of the engine oils as of today, are supposed to handle higher operating temps. I don't know the exact number, so let's say 250°. But the oil does thin down somewhat under heat.
I am not a Chemical Engineer. So, this is the best that I can explain it to you. But I did travel with the Chief Chemical Engineer from Shell oil company, for over a year. We traveled from one Mine to another all over the US. The presentations that we put on for the mining managers, were all about engine oil. This engineer also wrote the mil-specs for Shell oil company. So, I was very fortunate, to learn a lot about oils and the cooling of same from him.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

[/QUOTE]

Although I respect most on BITOG, I have ran nearly 100 UOAs in my lifetime and have never seen that behavior--either recorded or pointed out. Unless ran far past usable life, oil does not thicken...

It happened on Overkill's 5.7L Hemi Ram 1500. Ask him.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

This must apply only to HPL (which is telling). No other major brand oil that I have used does this--especially in direct injected engines.

HPL has a No VII oil that does zero shear. Nobody other than HPL make No VII oil though

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Although I respect most on BITOG, I have ran nearly 100 UOAs in my lifetime and have never seen that behavior--either recorded or pointed out. Unless ran far past usable life, oil does not thicken...

See

 

[CarbonSteel]

It happened on Overkill's 5.7L Hemi Ram 1500. Ask him.

Not disputing whether or not it happened, questioning why it happened. Oil thickening in a modern engine is not normal and speaks to something with HPL. While I sure it has a use case, the cost is not worth it.

I'm certain it would not thicken in my 2.7L given the fuel dilution that it has, but I'm not spending the money for HPL when M1 ESP does everything I need.

As an aside, I am friends with Overkill (IRL) so I'm not doubting his word in the slightest.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Not disputing whether or not it happened, questioning why it happened. Oil thickening in a modern engine is not normal and speaks to something with HPL. While I sure it has a use case, the cost is not worth it.

I'm certain it would not thicken in my 2.7L given the fuel dilution that it has, but I'm not spending the money for HPL when M1 ESP does everything I need.

As an aside, I am friends with Overkill (IRL) so I'm not doubting his word in the slightest.

Not disputing whether or not it happened, questioning why it happened. Oil thickening in a modern engine is not normal and speaks to something with HPL. While I sure it has a use case, the cost is not worth it.

I'm certain it would not thicken in my 2.7L given the fuel dilution that it has, but I'm not spending the money for HPL when M1 ESP does everything I need.

As an aside, I am friends with Overkill (IRL) so I'm not doubting his word in the slightest.

I did a VOA and this is how it looks, already so thick for a 0w20. So it will creep up after use

 

[CarbonSteel]

I did a VOA and this is how it looks, already so thick for a 0w20. So it will creep up after use

A VOA with 3 PPM iron and 7 PPM aluminum? Silicon , sodium, and potassium in the sample too?

How much was 1 QT of HPL delivered and what HPL oil was this?

This one?

https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/passenger-car-lubricants/products/no-vii-engine-oils

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