3.6 or 2.0

[ODDs]

What are the numbers of engines produced 3.6L vs. 2.0T? 3:1? 4:1? The 3.6L numbers are in the millions, and not just for the Wranglers.

The 2.0L GME T-4 was introduced to Wrangler in 2018, and to Alfa Romeo in 2016. So let’s say average miles per year is 12,000 miles, that would place most early engines at around 96,000. Let’s see how they fare at 125,000 miles or 150,000 miles.

The 3.6L Pentastar on the other hand, has many successful iterations at 200,000 miles or even 300,000 miles. Depending on proper maintenance, specially for the later generations.

I’ll stick with the 3.6L Pentastar. I might change my tune in 2030, when we have more data available for the 2.0T.

My point is that we are on JL forums, and most JL's have the 2.0 since that has been the default engine for quite some time. Yet most of the problems seem to be with the 3.6. But maybe that is just in the eye of this beholder.

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[gato]

I've taken steps to minimize early valvetrain damage.

Hey, congrats. You seem like a true auto enthusiast and fellow road circuit racer. And you clearly enjoy manuals (like I do, but I draw the line on bad powertrain combos).

I didn't know there was anything that could be done for the valvetrain damage. My understanding is that the cams have no rollers and will simply and inexorably wear out.

 

[gato]

The V6 is the worst, most imbalanced of all the major engine configurations. It only became popular when it was cheap and dirty to lop-off 2 cylinders from a V8 to make a lower power option. No one invests in V6s anymore. These days the economies of scale are in common I4 and I6 turbos as the low/high power options.

Stellantis, correctly is investing on only 2 ICE engine configurations their Hurricane T4 and T6 engines. Everything else is ancient and just being build for the markets where the 6>4 and 8>6 regardless of technical obsolescent prevails.

There is zero investment in the Pentastar and Hemis. They are respectively the worst most obsolete V8 and V6 engines in the market. Modern V8s like GM's LS6 and modern 6cyl engines like B58/S58 are 3-4 generations ahead.

 

[#diesel]

I’ll take the only Wrangler engine that offers a third pedal.

 

[Cutterone]

I’ll take the only Wrangler engine that offers a third pedal.

I used to be of your mind, at 46 I got my first auto, '25 Willys 2T. I gotta say I am really loving it, if I need to scratch the itch slap it over into manual mode, not quite the same but close enough!

 

[siggy]

I used to be of your mind, at 46 I got my first auto, '25 Willys 2T. I gotta say I am really loving it, if I need to scratch the itch slap it over into manual mode, not quite the same but close enough!

No it’s not…

 

[dac219.9]

The V6 is the worst, most imbalanced of all the major engine configurations. It only became popular when it was cheap and dirty to lop-off 2 cylinders from a V8 to make a lower power option. No one invests in V6s anymore. These days the economies of scale are in common I4 and I6 turbos as the low/high power options.

Stellantis, correctly is investing on only 2 ICE engine configurations their Hurricane T4 and T6 engines. Everything else is ancient and just being build for the markets where the 6>4 and 8>6 regardless of technical obsolescent prevails.

There is zero investment in the Pentastar and Hemis. They are respectively the worst most obsolete V8 and V6 engines in the market. Modern V8s like GM's LS6 and modern 6cyl engines like B58/S58 are 3-4 generations ahead.

So you’re comparing the V6 Pentastar found in off-road Wranglers to engines found in Corvettes and M-cars and Supras?

 

[Guv]

The V6 is the worst, most imbalanced of all the major engine configurations. It only became popular when it was cheap and dirty to lop-off 2 cylinders from a V8 to make a lower power option. No one invests in V6s anymore. These days the economies of scale are in common I4 and I6 turbos as the low/high power options.

Stellantis, correctly is investing on only 2 ICE engine configurations their Hurricane T4 and T6 engines. Everything else is ancient and just being build for the markets where the 6>4 and 8>6 regardless of technical obsolescent prevails.

There is zero investment in the Pentastar and Hemis. They are respectively the worst most obsolete V8 and V6 engines in the market. Modern V8s like GM's LS6 and modern 6cyl engines like B58/S58 are 3-4 generations ahead.

If you are referring to the first 90 degree V6’s made that used shared con rod journals you are correct. These types of V6’s are referred to as being “odd fire”. Trouble is, this practice was mostly stopped in the 80’s-90’s and was improved by using a redesigned crankshaft incorporating individual crank journals for each cylinder. These 90 degree V6’s are referred to as “even fire”.
Another way to avoid imbalance on V6’s is by using a balance shaft located in the vee. Many 4 cylinder engines over 2.0L use balance shafts.
If you change the angle of the V6 to 60 degrees you can get an “even fire” layout without the individual con rod journals and balance shafts.
Inline 6’s do seem to be staging somewhat of a comeback, other than length it is an excellent design. BMW has been very loyal to the inline 6.
Also, some 60 degree V6’s run very smooth and can make impressive hp.

 

[Cutterone]

No it’s not…

hence the "not quite the same" bit...
I'd for sure still have a stick if they didn't f up the clutch...

 

[Blacksport]

Gato:

LOL, ha-ha-ha! The LS6, a pushrod, 2-valve engine is "3-4 generations ahead" of DOHC, 4-cam, 4-valve per cylinder V6's ??????

The following manufacturers use V6's in NA, turbo & supercharged formats in some of their vehicles: Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lotus, Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura, Nissan (600hp GT-R & 400hp Z), Infiniti, Ford, Caddie (480hp CT4-V, titanium connecting rods with the manual 6-speed), GMC, Chevy, and CDJ. ALL of these V6's are 4-valve DOHC engines...

In-line 6's: BMW (Toyota uses a BMW 6), MB, Land Rover, Mazda & RAM use a straight 6 in one of their vehicles only...

Reduced investment in some ICE engines is mostly, not entirely, because of EV development...

How did I reduce the chance of rocker arm failure in the 3.6? Reducing the working/average coolant temperature down 30° ... 216° to 186°. Also using true PAO & ester-based synthetic, not "fake" synthetic, like most popular brands are. And, I have a full set of Melling rockers & lifters...Melling has designed their roller rockers so that the needle bearings "rotate" around the rocker pin, greatly reducing the wear on those unlucky enough to be doing all the valve lifting. I'll be installing them, IDK, whenever...

FYI; I have the resources to keep my 3.6 in perfect condition...the little 2-door is my DD, and a blast to drive with it's 6-speed manual & very sweet V6. Just bought a used, very clean Audi R8 with a gated 6-speed for $90k cash, to go with my C8 Corvette & my BMW Z4 M4.0i. BTW, only the manual Wrangler & Audi are fun to drive, the C8 & BMW have Mom-capable, boring automatics...I even let my wife drive them!

 

[DCamp]

No it’s not…

I'm good with automatic JLU. When I want to scratch my itch, I take the giant old F350 standard out and about.
Better than same.

 

[gato]

So you’re comparing the V6 Pentastar found in off-road Wranglers to engines found in Corvettes and M-cars and Supras?

The LS6 will be in everything. Chevy trucks, GMC trucks, Tahoes, Subarbans, etc, not just the Corvette. Point being that GM has launched 4 new V8 generations since FCA/Stellantis stopped development and even cancelled the Hemi.

The I6 BMW engine is on par with Stellantis I6 engine. Same generation and technology. The I4 of both brands are equally as competitive.

Point being that Stellantis has 2 modern, globally competitive engines offered in NA (plus the 1.6 derivative), while the Pentastar and Hemi are ancient.

 

[gato]

If you are referring to the first 90 degree V6’s made that used shared con rod journals you are correct. These types of V6’s are referred to as being “odd fire”. Trouble is, this practice was mostly stopped in the 80’s-90’s and was improved by using a redesigned crankshaft incorporating individual crank journals for each cylinder. These 90 degree V6’s are referred to as “even fire”.
Another way to avoid imbalance on V6’s is by using a balance shaft located in the vee. Many 4 cylinder engines over 2.0L use balance shafts.
If you change the angle of the V6 to 60 degrees you can get an “even fire” layout without the individual con rod journals and balance shafts.
Inline 6’s do seem to be staging somewhat of a comeback, other than length it is an excellent design. BMW has been very loyal to the inline 6.
Also, some 60 degree V6’s run very smooth and can make impressive hp.

Lots of words and history, but the entire world has stopped investing in V6s over a decade ago, in favor of Turbo I4 and I6 engines.

Stellantis will never ever spend one dime on improving or creating a new V6. But they will gladly take the money of the die-hards - that junk is fully amortized by now, even with the horrendous warranty costs.

 

[Odyssey USA]

Gato:

LOL, ha-ha-ha! The LS6, a pushrod, 2-valve engine is "3-4 generations ahead" of DOHC, 4-cam, 4-valve per cylinder V6's ??????

The following manufacturers use V6's in NA, turbo & supercharged formats in some of their vehicles: Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lotus, Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura, Nissan (600hp GT-R & 400hp Z), Infiniti, Ford, Caddie (480hp CT4-V, titanium connecting rods with the manual 6-speed), GMC, Chevy, and CDJ. ALL of these V6's are 4-valve DOHC engines...

In-line 6's: BMW (Toyota uses a BMW 6), MB, Land Rover, Mazda & RAM use a straight 6 in one of their vehicles only...

Reduced investment in some ICE engines is mostly, not entirely, because of EV development...

How did I reduce the chance of rocker arm failure in the 3.6? Reducing the working/average coolant temperature down 30° ... 216° to 186°. Also using true PAO & ester-based synthetic, not "fake" synthetic, like most popular brands are. And, I have a full set of Melling rockers & lifters...Melling has designed their roller rockers so that the needle bearings "rotate" around the rocker pin, greatly reducing the wear on those unlucky enough to be doing all the valve lifting. I'll be installing them, IDK, whenever...

FYI; I have the resources to keep my 3.6 in perfect condition...the little 2-door is my DD, and a blast to drive with it's 6-speed manual & very sweet V6. Just bought a used, very clean Audi R8 with a gated 6-speed for $90k cash, to go with my C8 Corvette & my BMW Z4 M4.0i. BTW, only the manual Wrangler & Audi are fun to drive, the C8 & BMW have Mom-capable, boring automatics...I even let my wife drive them!

I thought the VVT-only 3.6 originally came with needle bearings and they went to bushings because of failures?

I haven’t really looked closely at my PUG rockers that I’m gonna put back in. They were new May ‘25 and it is what it is. Also, I’m not hearing of the low lift side failing or haven’t noticed anyway. Did I miss something? It’s the VVL high lift block, or whatever the correct nomenclature is, that is taking out the camshaft lobes.

 

[AFD]

Did anyone ever figure this out yet??

Really not sure why the JL/JT only has the boring "good enough" minivan engines and the $70k+ 392 models, but nothing at all in-between. The diesel's gone, the 4xe is gone. Why not a 2.0T with the SRT tune, the 3.6L with an electric supercharger (+tune), a reasonably-priced 5.7L, or even that new 3.0TT I6 with either standard or H.O. profiles. Heck, offer at least 2 or 3 of those things and maybe even make one of them standard.

I'm sure a lot of buyers would spend an extra $3,500 to $5,000 (probably more) for a mid-range towing/performance option that isn't a 392 at Vette pricing.

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