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Best Setup for RV Flat Tow

Duffstone

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@CoolTech can you explain what the red wire does with regard to supplemental braking? I watched a tutorial install of your harness for the JL and it's well within my capabilities I think, I just get nervous when removing trim and such. But the tutorial didn't use the red wire and didn't give a good explanation of what it did.

@lightsout I agree with your assessment. I have a 2019 Thor Windsport 29m (F53 chassis w/V10 engine), 18K/23K gross weight rated. I took it to a cat scale with empty water tanks, full gas tank & full propane tank, and just the complementary starter kit that came with the rig (sewer hose, fresh water hose, chocks, Electrical umbilical & adapters / surge protectors), and it came in at 15,760 lbs, 10,260 on the rear, 5500 on the front. My family isn't a small one so Add 700lbs for people weight and that leaves 1,500 lbs of cargo. I agree with you, that 1500 lbs isn't much, and I've expressed that concern many times over the last month. Hopefully the family can keep their cargo on the light side.

I haven't made it to the CAT scale yet with my Jeep, but I suspect that it's more of the same. We'll probably be pushing the 23K GCWR the whole time...

However, we live in Oklahoma where it's mostly flat, and intended to stay state bound until I get 100% comfortable with the setup and get all my aftermarket suspension mods installed on the RV. Only thing left right now are the sumo springs on the rear, I have them, just haven't installed them yet. I'd also like to get a beefier front sway bar, but haven't purchased one yet. Otherwise the rear sway bar has been replaced, a rear torsion bar was installed, and the safetyPlus steering stabilizer has been installed.

I figure I won't be ready to hit our first national park till summer, and by then I should know what, if any, other upgrades need to be done before hitting the Mt's. of NM & CO. I'll keep an eye on the brakes like you mentioned, as that's an easy upgrade here on flat land if they prove to be trash like you say.

Thanks for the advice!
-Duff
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lightsout

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Since you are going to be pulling near the limits the main RV Mod you want to make is install the Banks Power system which also includes a programmer/tuner to reprogram the shifting, this will also add almost 1 mpg but is also adds valued HP. Note you do not need the option with header, the lower priced exhaust only is sufficient. This is a Must have for towing a Wrangler I was about to install before I decided to sell, however I know several who have it and they all say it is a game changer in terms of performance

https://www.bankspowerproducts.com/Banks-Products-for-GAS-MOTORHOMES-FORD-s/137.htm
 
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CoolTech

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I also added an "always hot" 12v outlet under the driver's dash to plug in the RVi Brake, as the front 12v outlet in the dash turns off with the key. The rear outlet in the Jeep is always hot, but then you'll need an extension, so I just made it easy with under dash power connection.
We have a product for the JL Wrangler that makes the Front 12v outlet hot all of the time. It's a simple 5 minute install and re-uses the Jeep's fuse so everything is compliant from a wiring perspective.

https://www.cooltechllc.com/2018-jeep-wrangler-jl/111-jl-powerport-kit.html
 

Duffstone

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We have a product for the JL Wrangler that makes the Front 12v outlet hot all of the time. It's a simple 5 minute install and re-uses the Jeep's fuse so everything is compliant from a wiring perspective.

https://www.cooltechllc.com/2018-jeep-wrangler-jl/111-jl-powerport-kit.html
What about that Red wire on the wiring harness that has something to do with the supplemental brake? is that something I need to be concerned with? If it's just a feedback brake light for the RV cabin then no biggie, but if it's for something else I'd like to know before I start ordering parts.

-Duff
 

CoolTech

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What about that Red wire on the wiring harness that has something to do with the supplemental brake? is that something I need to be concerned with? If it's just a feedback brake light for the RV cabin then no biggie, but if it's for something else I'd like to know before I start ordering parts.
Hi Duff, Like many vendors we had access to an early Jeep JL and I'd swear that the ECU - just like the JK, did not have a sleep state. As such, we believed that the brake light switch would always work. When we developed the harness, our first 20-30 kits had a red wire that was intended to pass along the brake light signal from the Jeep even when the switch was in the TOW position. The intention was that some aux brake systems had the provision to have a brake light confirmation signal and this red wire from our harness would make it easy for owners to connect this to their braking system confirmation wire (if any). However, we soon discovered that the production JL Jeeps would go into a sleep state a few minutes after the last door closure. The brake light signal is completely inactive.... and the red wire in our kit was essentially useless (we were passing on a signal that was never "on"). So, for the last year or more our kits no longer contain a "red wire". I hope this answers your question.
 

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Duffstone

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@CoolTech Perfectly, and I really appreciate the back story, it helps me understand why things are why they are. Between the video install I watched, and your explanation, it all makes sense now and I'll be picking up your harness and ditching the wireless light idea. Also, I'll probably do the deluxe kit to get the battery charger and umbilical, just seems like a good idea over the long term.

@jeepixle I tried the broomstick method of activating the brake after the Jeep sat cool for an hour and you were 100% correct, nothing happens at all. So either I didn't wait long enough, or there's a seat sensor. Either way I'm now much more confident about doing the wire harness like I said above.

@lightsout I think I'll pass on any engine / transmission performance upgrades for the time being. it's good to know they exist though. I'll probably discuss a brake upgrade when I take the rig into the truck shop to get it aligned, and see what they come up with. I'm 100% on board with a brake upgrade if it doesn't break the bank. Either way, I'm not expecting the RV to perform like my old pickup did when pulling loads through the mountains. I'll take it slow and steady and not worry about getting passed or holding up traffic.

Thanks for all your help guys!
-Duff
 

Off-Road Toad

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We have a product for the JL Wrangler that makes the Front 12v outlet hot all of the time. It's a simple 5 minute install and re-uses the Jeep's fuse so everything is compliant from a wiring perspective.

https://www.cooltechllc.com/2018-jeep-wrangler-jl/111-jl-powerport-kit.html
Cooltech. Not sure how to contact you on your website so I guess I’ll do it here.
Can you please provide the installation instructions for your PowerPort kit referred to above?
Thanks.
 

CoolTech

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Yeah, no worries. The install is pretty simple.... and a picture (below) is worth a 1000 words! The steps are as follows.
1. Remove the OEM 15A fuse for the Power Outlet
2. Plug the OEM Fuse into our "PowerPort" adapter
3. Plug our PowerPort adapter into the original fuse location
4. Connect the eye ring of our PowerPort adapter to the terminal. (We supply the nut.)

PwrPort.jpg
 

lightsout

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@CoolTech Perfectly, and I really appreciate the back story, it helps me understand why things are why they are. Between the video install I watched, and your explanation, it all makes sense now and I'll be picking up your harness and ditching the wireless light idea. Also, I'll probably do the deluxe kit to get the battery charger and umbilical, just seems like a good idea over the long term.

@jeepixle I tried the broomstick method of activating the brake after the Jeep sat cool for an hour and you were 100% correct, nothing happens at all. So either I didn't wait long enough, or there's a seat sensor. Either way I'm now much more confident about doing the wire harness like I said above.

@lightsout I think I'll pass on any engine / transmission performance upgrades for the time being. it's good to know they exist though. I'll probably discuss a brake upgrade when I take the rig into the truck shop to get it aligned, and see what they come up with. I'm 100% on board with a brake upgrade if it doesn't break the bank. Either way, I'm not expecting the RV to perform like my old pickup did when pulling loads through the mountains. I'll take it slow and steady and not worry about getting passed or holding up traffic.

Thanks for all your help guys!
-Duff

If you do not do the exhaust upgrade then at least consider the 5-Star programmer had this on my last M/H it is also a game changer for towing costing about $500 plug and play DIY

 

Frostbit

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Thinking of the “stay in play” duo brake for the wife’s JLUR when it comes in. Anyone using that system? Reviews?
 

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lightsout

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Thinking of the “stay in play” duo brake for the wife’s JLUR when it comes in. Anyone using that system? Reviews?
I I understand the system correctly it uses air pressure to activate the brake, This method is fine however if you are driving at high elevation and passes air powered systems take take too long to re pressurize (this is also the issue with the RVI system.

Invisibrake is probably the most used and reliable installed (non portable) braking system. If you are using a Gas Motorhome the invisibrake is the only way to go. Last year I tested 3 systems, RVI, Blue OX Patriot 3 and the Ready Brake. Every outing we crossed a steep mountain pass. The Ready brake performed the best and was the most reliable the other two were portable units that sat on the floor and with the stiff suspension of the wrangler (post lift) I had too many disconnects while towing and the RVI air system was slow to recover at altitudes. We just sold out Class A and went to a 5th wheel however had I kept it I would have installed the invisibrake.

If you are pulling a JLUR with a Gasser you are likely exceeding the tow limitations so that also complicates braking. We even replaced the brakes on our New 2017 Class A when we bought it as stock brakes on the Ford F53 chassis are garbage.
 

Durango

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If you are pulling a JLUR with a Gasser you are likely exceeding the tow limitations so that also complicates braking. We even replaced the brakes on our New 2017 Class A when we bought it as stock brakes on the Ford F53 chassis are garbage.
That's a bit of an assumption that isn't necessarily correct - many Class A gassers nowadays are rated to tow at least 5K lbs, if not more. Heck, my small Mercedes chassis is rated to tow that much.
Also - interesting that you had trouble with the amount of time it took for your RVi unit to recover pressure at high altitudes. That doesn't make sense as their less atmospheric pressure at high altitudes, making the pressure vessel in the RVi unit require less pressure - and besides, recovery should be more of a volume issue. Sounds like the RVi unit you had was faulty - I use mine at altitudes at and over 6K, and have never had that problem. Almost makes me think maybe it had an internal pressure leak. But that's not common...
 

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Towing with a Cummins diesel Dodge with truck camper in bed. Exhaust brake on the Cummins works great.
 

lightsout

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That's a bit of an assumption that isn't necessarily correct - many Class A gassers nowadays are rated to tow at least 5K lbs, if not more. Heck, my small Mercedes chassis is rated to tow that much.
Also - interesting that you had trouble with the amount of time it took for your RVi unit to recover pressure at high altitudes. That doesn't make sense as their less atmospheric pressure at high altitudes, making the pressure vessel in the RVi unit require less pressure - and besides, recovery should be more of a volume issue. Sounds like the RVi unit you had was faulty - I use mine at altitudes at and over 6K, and have never had that problem. Almost makes me think maybe it had an internal pressure leak. But that's not common...

We just purchased two Class A M/H in the last 16 months (just sold Both), we purchased the Sahara because of the weight limitation, Our 2nd M'H we shopped specifically for a M/H that would pull 5000lb and had the latest 6sp trans.

on the 30' plus rigs 95% of Gas M/H had a 5000lb limit and of that 34' and above even though the RV was rated to pull 5000lb when you add fuel, water, Propane and gear that 5000lb rating drops and you would be lucky to tow 4000lb unless 1005 Dry. There are a couple exception when you go to 38' and above with the 28K chassis but the F53 22K/26k GCVW which 90% of all newer Class A are built on 5000lb is pushing or exceeding the limit and likely over. I scaled my Sahara at 4950lb (full fuel). My 35K Bounder (2017 with 6sp) was avg 4.8 mpg. It is also not the pulling that is so much the issue (although max 35 MPH up 6% grade) it is also the stopping as the F53 brakes are garbage (we upgraded the brakes within 2 months of purchasing the 2017 Bounder).

I called RVI after we arrived at our destination the 1st time I used it and discussed the poor performance they were the ones that suggested the altitude may have contributed to the poor performance. The reason I called then is because I was concerned as we had to return over that pass which had a 9 mile decent at 6-8-percent decline with 4 hairpins and one 180. 100% of our trips involve that pass so braking was a big deal to us. Maybe you should rethink the altitude statement, the air is thinner thus requiring more time to build pressure per RVI.

Also sub 30' Motorhomes do not carry the weight the larger do so in some cases they are rated to 6k and some Class C as high as 8K, however those ratings are subjective as gear and wet RV takes away from GCVW. There are always exceptions but very few to pull over 5K as a gasser. A 100% stock JLUR whiil be right at 5K with fuel but then add any mods and it jumps which is why my Sahara is at 4900lb with Aluminum bumpers, Winch Lift, 35's off road gear (those weights were without me in it). Add 37's bumper and winch to a rubi you could be pushing 6000lb plus. I scaled both the RV and Wrangler together at the truck stop my GCVW was 2680lb with the Motorhome water, grey and black tanks empty and no food or clothing on board. Technically the wrangler was too heavy by 80lb (the F53 is rated at 26000lb GCVW as are ALL F53 Chassis).

My point is just because it says you can tow 5K it is limited to gear and whether wet or dry and then any JLUR with mods will be at 5K or above. My Brother just retired from the WA State Patrol he told me that now with almost all accidents Toad and GCVW is investigated and is considered negligence if exceeded. I am sure the insurance companies feel the same way.

Now we just bought a new 41' 5th Wheel which has elec/Hyd disc brakes because they are truly progressive that 170000 5er stops 1/2 the distance of the Class A and works more like the Invisibrake system for Motorhome Toads. Plus now we get 10-14 MPG pulling with our F350 6.7 Diesel, down side is we do not have the Wrangler with us on some trips but still have the 4WD truck which is just as capable as our Sahara (except the turn radius).

My advice if you are going to pull a 5000lb TOAD go Diesel especially at Gasser at sub 5-mpg (without the TOAD 7-MPG), the $$$ really adds up with millage like that.

Anyone towing a Toad needs to scale the package. We would only tow DRY because of the wrangler weight. If you are Dry Camping that is not an option though.
 

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I called RVI after we arrived at our destination the 1st time I used it and discussed the poor performance they were the ones that suggested the altitude may have contributed to the poor performance. The reason I called then is because I was concerned as we had to return over that pass which had a 9 mile decent at 6-8-percent decline with 4 hairpins and one 180. 100% of our trips involve that pass so braking was a big deal to us. Maybe you should rethink the altitude statement, the air is thinner thus requiring more time to build pressure per RVI....
A 100% stock JLUR whiil be right at 5K with fuel but then add any mods and it jumps which is why my Sahara is at 4900lb with Aluminum bumpers, Winch Lift, 35's off road gear (those weights were without me in it). Add 37's bumper and winch to a rubi you could be pushing 6000lb plus.
My point is just because it says you can tow 5K it is limited to gear and whether wet or dry and then any JLUR with mods will be at 5K or above.
Sorry, but I stand by my thinking on the altitude - thinner air is not very technical, but if you want to go that route, think of a potato chip bag or any other sealed vessel as you go up in altitude - as the air pressure all around the vessel decreases (atmospheric pressure) the air inside the vessel if it's sealed pushes on the walls of the vessel, in essence creating a higher differential. Not only have I never experienced any decrease in performance (recovery rate of the pressure) with the RVi in similar situations, but years ago had the CW unit marketed under Roadmaster, and it too used a pressurized vessel to push a piston out against the brake pedal, and it also performed fine under those conditions.
According to the owner of RVi, that unit is not designed to constantly be pressing on the brake pedal - and if you watch the tablet that indicates when it's pressing the pedal, it does not press constantly even under those type declines. What causes the piston to deploy is the accelerometer sensing a change in acceleration - deceleration in this case - and then it reacts accordingly. Once the vehicle slows, the acceleration must again change - decelerate - for it to sense it and deploy the piston.
Of course, maybe the difference we see is because I am doing this in a DP that has air brakes, so you don't pump the brakes like a lot of people do with gassers - hence I'm not causing that piston to constantly push the pedal so the demand for air is less. I actually found the piston deploying more in stop and go traffic once - but it still was able to keep up with the demand. I'll reserve comment on what you were told - there's other posters on this forum who have been told things by RVi customer svc that contradict what the posters found...

As for the Rubi weight - I have under 100 lbs in accessories added to the weight of 4439 lbs, and with my usual 1/2 to 3/4 tank of fuel I am still under 5K lbs. I don't carry much in the Jeep, so I don't worry about exceeding 5K - but you have a point in that you can quickly add a lot with gear, etc.
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