Adjustable Uppers, or Stick with Fixed Lowers

[ejewels]

Hey everyone,

With all of the awesome help from this forum I've finally pulled the trigger on a Clayton 1.5 ride right+ kit (minus their uppers). So since I'm on a non-rubi, it will be about a 2-2.5" lift from what I've read. It includes 1.5" springs, adj front and rear trackbars and adj front and rear sway bar end links.

I did not buy their adj UCAs because I had already purchased (but not installed yet) the Mopar LCAs from the mopar 2" kit. So I'm trying to figure out if I should just spend the extra $200 on Claytons UCAs or just use the Mopar LCAs. From a few people on here and the shop installing it, they say I should be good with just the lowers for caster to get around spec. Clayton of course wanted to sell me the uppers too, but they told me I could try just the mopar arms and if I can get caster to around 5.5, then I'm good. I really just want the jeep to be in spec alignment-wise and give me close to stock road manners. I don't need crazy or extra caster and I'm only sticking with 33's for now.

So, because I'm not doing my own work I can't just try things out. I would pay $200 more to do it "right" but only if it's really necessary. Let me know what you guys think! Thanks in advance

Sponsored

 

[Philly_]

Having the adjustable arms would be nice if you're ever planning on lifting further or want to more precisely dial in caster for on-road handling characteristics.

That said, I would stick with the fixed Mopar arms and see how that goes before pulling the trigger on the adjustable uppers. I do not run the 6 degrees of caster, which seems to be generally accepted as the ideal angle, and if I recall, I'm actually around the 4.5 degree mark. This is where my Rubicon was from the factory and it handles basically the same (just taller). Plus, the better pinion angle in my case helps me avoid front driveshaft vibrations while in 4-Auto (shouldn't be a factor with the factory driveshaft).

Something else to consider, but may not be a factor for you, is that having different ends on the Clayton arms will allow for more mobility when articulating the suspension. If you mix higher mobility arms with the factory arms, all the stress will go on the bushings that don't allow for as much articulation. Plenty of people run this way, but it would eventually cause those bushings to wear out, but you could also just upgrade the lower arms at that time as well.

Hope this helped and didn't make things worse! ? Upgrading Jeeps is a balancing act, and the key is deciding what is most important to you and your intended use.

 

[word302]

Yeah the Mopar fixed lowers should be fine for 1.5” springs. You can add control arms later should you feel the need. I always recommend adjustable lower control arms first as they are the best tool to keep your axle positioned properly but they’re more expensive than the uppers. The factory spec for caster is too low. If you have adjustable arms I always shoot for as close to 6.5° as possible.

 

[ejewels]

Having the adjustable arms would be nice if you're ever planning on lifting further or want to more precisely dial in caster for on-road handling characteristics.

That said, I would stick with the fixed Mopar arms and see how that goes before pulling the trigger on the adjustable uppers. I do not run the 6 degrees of caster, which seems to be generally accepted as the ideal angle, and if I recall, I'm actually around the 4.5 degree mark. This is where my Rubicon was from the factory and it handles basically the same (just taller). Plus, the better pinion angle in my case helps me avoid front driveshaft vibrations while in 4-Auto (shouldn't be a factor with the factory driveshaft).

Something else to consider, but may not be a factor for you, is that having different ends on the Clayton arms will allow for more mobility when articulating the suspension. If you mix higher mobility arms with the factory arms, all the stress will go on the bushings that don't allow for as much articulation. Plenty of people run this way, but it would eventually cause those bushings to wear out, but you could also just upgrade the lower arms at that time as well.

Hope this helped and didn't make things worse! ? Upgrading Jeeps is a balancing act, and the key is deciding what is most important to you and your intended use.

Thanks. I wasn’t aware that pushing the caster closer to 6 could introduce driveline vibes. Good to know because on my lifted Tacoma that was an issue and I told myself I wanted none of that BS with this jeep lol. What’s the deal with vibes and pinion angles with lifted jeeps? I noticed you said just in 4Hi so wondering what that’s about. Driveline vibes are the last thing I want to deal with so whatever it takes for my setup not to have them, I’m all for.

and with using the Clayton arms… are you saying using them along with other stock parts actually can wear the other stock arms/bushing? So this would be In favor of just using the mopar fixed arms?

 

[word302]

Thanks. I wasn’t aware that pushing the caster closer to 6 could introduce driveline vibes. Good to know because on my lifted Tacoma that was an issue and I told myself I wanted none of that BS with this jeep lol. What’s the deal with vibes and pinion angles with lifted jeeps? I noticed you said just in 4Hi so wondering what that’s about. Driveline vibes are the last thing I want to deal with so whatever it takes for my setup not to have them, I’m all for.

and with using the Clayton arms… are you saying using them along with other stock parts actually can wear the other stock arms/bushing? So this would be In favor of just using the mopar fixed arms?

The higher pinion angles associated with higher caster only become an issue when in 4wd. In 2wd the front axle disconnects keeping the front driveline from spinning. If you have the auto 4wd system there is potential for driveline vibes in auto 4wd but many are running 6°+ caster with that setup and reporting no issues.

 

[ejewels]

The higher pinion angles associated with higher caster only become an issue when in 4wd. In 2wd the front axle disconnects keeping the front driveline from spinning. If you have the auto 4wd system there is potential for driveline vibes in auto 4wd but many are running 6°+ caster with that setup and reporting no issues.

ah ok thanks for the info. So to negate the driveline vibes you would just bring caster back a bit from 6+? I'd imagine these issues might be with higher lifts as well? I'm on the auto v6 and only gonna go up a tad over 2" from everything I've read.

 

[word302]

ah ok thanks for the info. So to negate the driveline vibes you would just bring caster back a bit from 6+? I'd imagine these issues might be with higher lifts as well? I'm on the auto v6 and only gonna go up a tad over 2" from everything I've read.

Do you have the auto 4wd transfer case?

 

[word302]

Also if you keep the factory CV driveline you won’t get any vibrations.

 

[Philly_]

@word302 nailed it. With the factory driveshaft it’s not an issue, and you wouldn’t need to replace the front driveshaft unless you go with much larger shocks.

and with using the Clayton arms… are you saying using them along with other stock parts actually can wear the other stock arms/bushing? So this would be In favor of just using the mopar fixed arms?

Using the arms in general will not cause the bushings on the other arms to wear, but when articulating your suspension, there will always be a limiting factor. In this case, if not the shock length, then it could be factory control arm bushings. Because the Clayton joints have the ability for far greater movement, they will see virtually no stress when paired with factory arms, which will see far more stress than if it were distributed evenly across all the arms.

Honestly, it’s not something I would worry about too much unless you’re utilizing every bit of articulation available on a regular basis. I only noted it, as it is the only downside I could think of, aside from added cost, to purchasing the Clayton arms.

 

[ejewels]

Do you have the auto 4wd transfer case?

Sorry but not sure to be honest? It’s a ‘21 JLU Willy’s, automatic trans with the 3.6 eTorque v6.

 

[ejewels]

@word302 nailed it. With the factory driveshaft it’s not an issue, and you wouldn’t need to replace the front driveshaft unless you go with much larger shocks.



Using the arms in general will not cause the bushings on the other arms to wear, but when articulating your suspension, there will always be a limiting factor. In this case, if not the shock length, then it could be factory control arm bushings. Because the Clayton joints have the ability for far greater movement, they will see virtually no stress when paired with factory arms, which will see far more stress than if it were distributed evenly across all the arms.

Honestly, it’s not something I would worry about too much unless you’re utilizing every bit of articulation available on a regular basis. I only noted it, as it is the only downside I could think of, aside from added cost, to purchasing the Clayton arms.

Thanks for the info! I’m assuming I have this factory driveshaft? And even in 4 hi I should be good?

 

[ejewels]

Also if you keep the factory CV driveline you won’t get any vibrations.

Does this lift change the factory CV driveline? I think I’m keeping the factory CV driveline but not sure with the lift. I’m getting confused lol

 

[word302]

Sorry but not sure to be honest? It’s a ‘21 JLU Willy’s, automatic trans with the 3.6 eTorque v6.

Look at your transfer case shift knob. Is there a 4 auto setting? You should be just fine with that lift and 6.5° of caster. You won’t need to change the driveshaft. Try the Mopar LCAs. If you feel like it wanders a little bit (low caster) get some adjustable LCAs. Don’t overthink things too much.

 

[ejewels]

Look at your transfer case shift knob. Is there a 4 auto setting? You should be just fine with that lift and 6.5° of caster. You won’t need to change the driveshaft. Try the Mopar LCAs. If you feel like it wanders a little bit (low caster) get some adjustable LCAs. Don’t overthink things too much.

2L,4H,N,4L… so guess not? Does this mean I might get vibrations? And what about the CV driveline thing? I’m only overthinking because you just put this all in my head lol

 

[Philly_]

2L,4H,N,4L… so guess not? Does this mean I might get vibrations? And what about the CV driveline thing? I’m only overthinking because you just put this all in my head lol

You are correct you don’t have 4-Auto, and no, you will not get vibrations.

When I say, “factory driveshaft,” I mean the driveshaft your jeep came with from the factory. I am running very long shocks, so mine will bind when I use the full range of the suspension, so I swapped it for a different one.

The driveshaft your jeep came with has CV joints at each end. This allows the shaft to spin more smoothly at varying angles with little to no bind. For example, as your suspension articulates.

The aftermarket driveshaft I’ve added has a double cardan joint on the transfer case side, and a single cardan joint at the axle. This is a very common design for aftermarket driveshafts, but if you don’t have your caster, and therefore pinion angle, dialed in properly, it can cause those types of driveshaft joints to bind slightly while rotating, leading to vibrations. This will only occur while in 4 wheel drive and the front drive because that’s the only time the front driveshaft spins. Also, it’s typically not noticeable unless you are moving at higher speeds.

Sponsored