Which Trail App?

[INCRHULK]

Dual makes excellent GPS bluetooth devices. Anything is better than iOS's built in "GPS" which is really "A-GPS" due to it's dependency on cell towers.

A-GPS uses cellular towers to help triangulate as needed. It’s especially helpful in areas where GPS signals are blocked, attenuated, or bounced by buildings, etc.

Otherwise the GPS is accurate as long as you have visibility to the sky.

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[txj2go]

Otherwise the GPS is accurate as long as you have visibility to the sky.

I've had no problems with GPS/Gaia accuracy on trails. We have come to what appeared to be a Y in the trail and took the wrong branch, go about 20' and it is clear on GAIA that we were off the trail, back up take the other branch and continue on the trail.

 

[INCRHULK]

I've had no problems with GPS/Gaia accuracy on trails. We have come to what appeared to be a Y in the trail and took the wrong branch, go about 20' and it is clear on GAIA that we were off the trail, back up take the other branch and continue on the trail.

Exactly, the only time I’ve had issues with the accuracy of my cellular‘s GPS is in extreme latitude or other areas signal coverage from the satellite constellation is bad.

 

[Ratbert]

Dual makes excellent GPS bluetooth devices. Anything is better than iOS's built in "GPS" which is really "A-GPS" due to it's dependency on cell towers.

I'm wondering why you're so down on A-GPS, especially when we're out on the trail.

 

[donmontalvo]

I'm wondering why you're so down on A-GPS, especially when we're out on the trail.

Wouldn't you want to know about the dependencies?

Just as it's a free world, knowledge is power.

 

[donmontalvo]

I don't understand the need for external GPS receiver. I have an iphone 6 with GAIA on it and the mapping works very well when we are out of cell signal range. I don't use an ipad for maps but I do carry a Garmin Inreach Mini so I could use that as the GPS receiver.

It comes down to responsiveness and accuracy. Real GPS (that don't depend on cell towers) lock on to many more satellites. In the city of course A-GPS is better, but out in the wild, A-GPS is compromised.

I forgot to post this link:

https://www.globe.gov/documents/2631933/6965868/42534991.pdf

 

[Ratbert]

It comes down to responsiveness and accuracy. Real GPS (that don't depend on cell towers) lock on to many more satellites. In the city of course A-GPS is better, but out in the wild, A-GPS is compromised.

I forgot to post this link:

https://www.globe.gov/documents/2631933/6965868/42534991.pdf

Are you thinking that the technology hasn't improved since that study was published back in 2009 where they tested a phone that was released in 2008?

 

[dragoneggs]

Are you thinking that the technology hasn't improved since that study was published back in 2009 where they tested a phone that was released in 2008?

I was about to pose the same question. I have been considering getting one of these but haven’t been able to determine if it would really be a significant upgrade vs. new iPhone GPS ability when cell coverage is non existent.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M9CZYT...ZYX9AVZ7D&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

 

[ChuckQue]

I’ve taken my cellphone out into the sticks when backpacking, and there aren’t any cell towers whatsoever. GPS still works, it’s just not as quick or accurate as a dedicated GPS receiver. Plus it kills your battery life. You do need to download map data for offline use or all you will get is basic GPS data like lat/long, altitude, speed, etc.

I use a Garmin Glo 2 GPS receiver. It’s extremely accurate, small/lightweight, can pair to multiple devices. I’ll run that with an iPad mini for off-roading and it’s fantastic. With TOR and Gaia both being CarPlay compatible now I haven’t used the iPad as much as I did before, which is nice because it’s less clutter on the small JL dash. For backpacking I love having the Garmin Glo because it saves my phone battery since I can run it in airplane mode with bluetooth enabled.

It’s really not complicated and works very well. I like to have options for GOS navigation. TOR has less trails than OnX, but the user reviews are excellent for knowing current trail conditions. I’ve called a ranger station to check if a trail is open, no one answered, then checked the user review on ToR and saw someone post the day before that the gate was locked up. Saved me a trip.

OnX has a ton of trails but I find the user interface mediocre. I will keep it and use it to find trails in areas I am visiting, but primarily use Gaia for the actual navigation.

Gaia is a very powerful GPS map program. The layers library is amazing, though you do have to pay a one time use fee for certain ones because of licensing (IE Nat Geo). They are worth it. The detail is incredible. The amount of information is very very good, which when you are out solo backpacking you want that. It could save your ass.

@roaniecowpony I believe you and I are in the same area of SoCal. If you’d like, I’d be more than happy to meet up with you and show you the differences so you can get a real idea of what works best for your use sir.

 

[txj2go]

I’ve taken my cellphone out into the sticks when backpacking, and there aren’t any cell towers whatsoever. GPS still works, it’s just not as quick or accurate as a dedicated GPS receiver. Plus it kills your battery life. You do need to download map data for offline use

I have a real old iphone and I don't have any complaints about the GPS power when way out off the grid. I don't have anything to compare to but it seems accurate and fast enough for my purposes.

I use a Garmin Glo 2 GPS receiver. It’s extremely accurate, small/lightweight, can pair to multiple devices. I’ll run that with an iPad mini for off-roading and it’s fantastic.

This is a good point- a person doing a lot of travel to remote places should have a Garmin Inreach or similar satellite communicator for emergencies, so it can be used as a GPS receiver the rest of the time.

 

[donmontalvo]

Has anyone who says A-GPS is fine ever compared accuracy and performance against a GPS? I mean if A-GPS works for you, that's all that really matters, right? Over the years I've learned to have them all, so you can use what works for the terrain you're in. Kind of like comparing CB to GMRS to HAM, etc.

 

[donmontalvo]

Are you thinking that the technology hasn't improved since that study was published back in 2009 where they tested a phone that was released in 2008?

No but I guess I can see why you assumed that. LOL

 

[Ratbert]

No but I guess I can see why you assumed that. LOL

The study you referenced used technology from 2008, so yeah, it's understandable why some of us might question its validity ~15 years later.

All I have is personal anecdotal evidence to go on. Every time that I've needed to know my location my phone has been able to select the appropriate technology stack to provide the appropriate level of detail. Earlier this year, for example, we got off the trail while doing the Trifecta north of Moab. It was early in the season and not all of the trail was clearly marked. OnX (using either AGPS, GPS, or a combination of the two) told us where we were in relation to the trail with sufficient accuracy to get us back on track. The real trail was about 50 feet away. That's what really matters, right?

 

[donmontalvo]

The study you referenced used technology from 2008, so yeah, it's understandable why some of us might question its validity ~15 years later.

All I have is personal anecdotal evidence to go on. Every time that I've needed to know my location my phone has been able to select the appropriate technology stack to provide the appropriate level of detail. Earlier this year, for example, we got off the trail while doing the Trifecta north of Moab. It was early in the season and not all of the trail was clearly marked. OnX (using either AGPS, GPS, or a combination of the two) told us where we were in relation to the trail with sufficient accuracy to get us back on track. The real trail was about 50 feet away. That's what really matters, right?

My point has always been that an iPhone with paired GPS device is faster and more accurate on trails, compared to iPhone built In GPS (aka A-GPS).

I’m willing to bet food and drink against anyone who disagrees who can meet in a suitable area near Dallas and prove me wrong. The test of course would need to be done where there is *NO* cell phone service.

The window is open. Place your bet. I bet food and drink. If you want to bet money, I’m happy to meet at a poolroom that has Diamond 4.5x9 tables. Game of your choice (14.1, 9-ball, 8-ball, or 1-pocket).

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Ratbert]

My point has always been that an iPhone with paired GPS device is faster and more accurate on trails, compared to iPhone built In GPS (aka A-GPS).

A dedicated GPS device could be faster and more accurate. As far as I can tell that's not what's being debated.

Most of us aren't trying to guide a missile into a window. Do you have post-2009 evidence that a dedicated GPS device works in the scenarios that most of us experience where a modern phone fails to do so?

Faster and more accurate is somewhat irrelevant if not quite as fast and not quite as accurate is sufficient to accomplish the task. Agreed?

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