Wiring a new winch

[Dyolfknip74]

At first blush from the cheap seats in the spectator gallery, the charges do appear a bit excessive and without further inquiry it is somewhat difficult to ascertain their validity. However, regardless as to the propriety of these charges, you should immediately take the Jeep back to the dealer and ask them where the WARN Power Interrupt Kit is installed and ask how it is switched. No reputable service shop should install a winch (or any other power driven device) without considering a power disconnect mechanism, particularly given that it appears they are making the repairs only because they discovered a frayed wire, strongly suggesting it could happen again. By wiring the winch directly to the battery, they have provided no way to automatically or otherwise kill the power in case the positive lead shorts against a ground in the future, perhaps inadvertently or from your involvement in a crash. Can we say fire?

The Power Interrupt Kit provides a system that routes the positive lead from the battery to a solenoid (and then from there a “positive“ cable runs to the winch) which is then controlled by a switch (wherever you choose to mount it; mine is on a dash-mounted switch panel) preventing power from being present at the winch except when switched on for actual use. At all other times, there is no power present at the winch. Sorry folks, but no one should ever consider mounting anything involving power that is not fused or otherwise protected against a short. This kit does that. Failure to do this in your driveway is called whatever you want to call it; failure to do this at the dealership is called negligence.

For what they charged you, and for safety’s sake, I would strongly suggest a return to the dealership.

Winches have been installed for years without a seperate solenoid. I wouldn't expect a delaership to even know they exist. Calling it negligence is a little heavy handed.

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[GtX]

At first blush from the cheap seats in the spectator gallery, the charges do appear a bit excessive and without further inquiry it is somewhat difficult to ascertain their validity. However, regardless as to the propriety of these charges, you should immediately take the Jeep back to the dealer and ask them where the WARN Power Interrupt Kit is installed and ask how it is switched. No reputable service shop should install a winch (or any other power driven device) without considering a power disconnect mechanism, particularly given that it appears they are making the repairs only because they discovered a frayed wire, strongly suggesting it could happen again. By wiring the winch directly to the battery, they have provided no way to automatically or otherwise kill the power in case the positive lead shorts against a ground in the future, perhaps inadvertently or from your involvement in a crash. Can we say fire?

The Power Interrupt Kit provides a system that routes the positive lead from the battery to a solenoid (and then from there a “positive“ cable runs to the winch) which is then controlled by a switch (wherever you choose to mount it; mine is on a dash-mounted switch panel) preventing power from being present at the winch except when switched on for actual use. At all other times, there is no power present at the winch. Sorry folks, but no one should ever consider mounting anything involving power that is not fused or otherwise protected against a short. This kit does that. Failure to do this in your driveway is called whatever you want to call it; failure to do this at the dealership is called negligence.

For what they charged you, and for safety’s sake, I would strongly suggest a return to the dealership.

The Dealership replaced frayed cable(s) on an already installed winch. Had they installed a solenoid too the OP would be complaining about an even higher bill and that the dealership changed their installation.

 

[DrPerez007]

Winches have been installed for years without a seperate solenoid. I wouldn't expect a delaership to even know they exist. Calling it negligence is a little heavy handed.

Just because “we’ve always done it that way,” doesn’t mean it is correct. Unfortunately, in today’s litigious society, everything is subject to second and third guessing and “past practice” will only carry them so far. This is actually an easy call because when the dealership offered to fix the alleged winch problem, they were admitting that they had the requisite (professional) knowledge to do so and the law will hold them to a (much) higher standard than beer-drinking buddies from the neighborhood doing it in the driveway. The minute the dealership put a wrench on this one, they undertook a “duty” as the law sees it and became responsible for all of the foreseeable consequences, including failure to protect the battery and any resulting fire or issue.

Now I will admit that the we don’t hear directly about a lot of winch-related fires, but what we hear about frequently is “under the hood or dash” fires in Jeeps and other modified vehicles (four-wheel drive vehicles being common) where the cause is “undetermined.” Over the years, I have wired more than my fair share of vehicles, including all of my numerous Jeeps, as well as plenty of emergency vehicles and other auxiliary-equipped vehicles, and along the way I have seen some pretty shady wiring. This, along with serving as an emergency rescue tech for countless years, seems to confirm my suspicion (along with a lot of fire inspectors) that fires are not uncommon from improper vehicle wiring.

The OP paid a lot of money here for whatever they did. They should have at least done it right.

 

[X-Treme]

Haha... Sorry man. As long as this doesn't turn into the my winch is scratched thread, I think we'll be ok.

The other Whiny thread you mean?

 

[6.2Blazer]

Before any work was done, did you have the shop provide you with an estimate the price for parts and labor? Did you authorize the work? Did you tell them not to do any repairs beyond the agreed on estimate without contacting you first?

Ditto........
I have 3 vehicles with winches in my garage right now. The typical winch on a Jeep is just hooking up the power and ground wires to the battery. It's not unusual for dealerships to charge in the $150/hour range for shop labor which is just over 5 hours. Just can't imagine it takes that much time to route a couple of battery cables between the winch and battery even if you have to take some of the grille and stuff off to get to it.

This is also why you shouldn't go to the dealership to have work like this completed!

 

[6.2Blazer]

Here's what they did

Okay, so the rest of the story........ to be honest the post from the OP are a little misleading. (I will admit to not reading every post on here....so apologize if this is a repeat).

If you read the invoice it states the customer brought the vehicle in for electrical problems under presumed warranty. The diagnosis was that the electrical problems were caused by the aftermarket winch wiring, which they fixed. This is one of those cases that even though the vehicle is under warranty they are saying that improper installation of aftermarket parts caused the issue. Because of this it's not covered under warranty. You now have to look at the labor to include the time it took to diagnose and find the issue, and then the repairs on top of it.
This does not appear to be a case where they were looking at the Jeep for a completely different issue and the tech was like "by the way, do you want me to fix the cables).
So was $800 the TOTAL bill or just the labor? If $800 was total than minus the parts and $150/hour labor you are "only" looking at 4ish hours labor. When you start looking at it this way the labor bill starts looking at least halfway realistic. It could have taken the tech a couple hours to track down what the issue was, then a couple more hours to fix it.

 

[JustDave]

Okay, so the rest of the story........ to be honest the post from the OP are a little misleading. (I will admit to not reading every post on here....so apologize if this is a repeat).

If you read the invoice it states the customer brought the vehicle in for electrical problems under presumed warranty. The diagnosis was that the electrical problems were caused by the aftermarket winch wiring, which they fixed. This is one of those cases that even though the vehicle is under warranty they are saying that improper installation of aftermarket parts caused the issue. Because of this it's not covered under warranty. You now have to look at the labor to include the time it took to diagnose and find the issue, and then the repairs on top of it.
This does not appear to be a case where they were looking at the Jeep for a completely different issue and the tech was like "by the way, do you want me to fix the cables).
So was $800 the TOTAL bill or just the labor? If $800 was total than minus the parts and $150/hour labor you are "only" looking at 4ish hours labor. When you start looking at it this way the labor bill starts looking at least halfway realistic. It could have taken the tech a couple hours to track down what the issue was, then a couple more hours to fix it.

I explained this already, but since you didn't read them all, I'll do it again. I skip to the end too when it drags on too long. So, anyway, I took it in a few months ago for the same issue. They ripped just about all of the electrical system out & replaced some computer module. The winch has been in for 10,000 miles, so they should have noticed it then. Who knows it they rerouted it wrong or if it goes back to me. So when I took it in again for the same thing they did a diagnostic on it & the "motor generator unit" needed replaced & it would take a few days for parts. A few days later they called & said while they were replacing the "MGU" they noticed the winch wires frayed. So, the diagnostic was actually done on the warranty repair & the winch problem was discovered when parts came in and they were installing the MGU thing. My responsibility ended up being 96.52 parts & $793.50 labor. The $800 labor ended up being just for the install. For some reason, they unspooled the winch while they did it. It didn't need removed or anything to get to wires. The invoice makes it seems like they did some extensive wire routing to make sure it doesn't happen again. They ended up routing it almost the exact way I had it, just used more zip ties. I accept being an idiot for letting a dealer do an install without a quote. Fool me once.....

 

[Craigger]

At first blush from the cheap seats in the spectator gallery, the charges do appear a bit excessive and without further inquiry it is somewhat difficult to ascertain their validity. However, regardless as to the propriety of these charges, you should immediately take the Jeep back to the dealer and ask them where the WARN Power Interrupt Kit is installed and ask how it is switched. No reputable service shop should install a winch (or any other power driven device) without considering a power disconnect mechanism, particularly given that it appears they are making the repairs only because they discovered a frayed wire, strongly suggesting it could happen again. By wiring the winch directly to the battery, they have provided no way to automatically or otherwise kill the power in case the positive lead shorts against a ground in the future, perhaps inadvertently or from your involvement in a crash. Can we say fire?

The Power Interrupt Kit provides a system that routes the positive lead from the battery to a solenoid (and then from there a “positive“ cable runs to the winch) which is then controlled by a switch (wherever you choose to mount it; mine is on a dash-mounted switch panel) preventing power from being present at the winch except when switched on for actual use. At all other times, there is no power present at the winch. Sorry folks, but no one should ever consider mounting anything involving power that is not fused or otherwise protected against a short. This kit does that. Failure to do this in your driveway is called whatever you want to call it; failure to do this at the dealership is called negligence.

For what they charged you, and for safety’s sake, I would strongly suggest a return to the dealership.

I agree, this is the right way to do it. If they didn't do this, I would hope that they at least fused the positive lead close to the battery.

 

[JustDave]

I agree, this is the right way to do it. If they didn't do this, I would hope that they at least fused the positive lead close to the battery.

Nope,

 

[GtX]

I would hope that they at least fused the positive lead close to the battery.

Is this how it was installed by OP?

Is this what the winch manufacturer recommends?

 

[Craigger]

Nope,

Is this how it was installed by OP?

Is this what the winch manufacturer recommends?

Regardless of how it was originally installed or what the manufacturer recommends, I'm very surprised a service center wouldn't fuse the connection. It's really cheap insurance and just good practice whenever you're connecting directly to the battery. In case you ever get into a wreck you don't want some really thick gauge live wires flopping around.

 

[jaymz]

Just because “we’ve always done it that way,” doesn’t mean it is correct. Unfortunately, in today’s litigious society, everything is subject to second and third guessing and “past practice” will only carry them so far. This is actually an easy call because when the dealership offered to fix the alleged winch problem, they were admitting that they had the requisite (professional) knowledge to do so and the law will hold them to a (much) higher standard than beer-drinking buddies from the neighborhood doing it in the driveway. The minute the dealership put a wrench on this one, they undertook a “duty” as the law sees it and became responsible for all of the foreseeable consequences, including failure to protect the battery and any resulting fire or issue.

Now I will admit that the we don’t hear directly about a lot of winch-related fires, but what we hear about frequently is “under the hood or dash” fires in Jeeps and other modified vehicles (four-wheel drive vehicles being common) where the cause is “undetermined.” Over the years, I have wired more than my fair share of vehicles, including all of my numerous Jeeps, as well as plenty of emergency vehicles and other auxiliary-equipped vehicles, and along the way I have seen some pretty shady wiring. This, along with serving as an emergency rescue tech for countless years, seems to confirm my suspicion (along with a lot of fire inspectors) that fires are not uncommon from improper vehicle wiring.

The OP paid a lot of money here for whatever they did. They should have at least done it right.

While not a bad idea, power interruption is completely unnecessary. Starters have been run hot directly from the battery since the invention of electric starters. Cables don’t just randomly short out. Aside from that, I’d bet the crappy solenoids that many people are using will catch on fire long before the cabling will due to excessive current.

 

[JustDave]

Ditto........
I have 3 vehicles with winches in my garage right now. The typical winch on a Jeep is just hooking up the power and ground wires to the battery. It's not unusual for dealerships to charge in the $150/hour range for shop labor which is just over 5 hours. Just can't imagine it takes that much time to route a couple of battery cables between the winch and battery even if you have to take some of the grille and stuff off to get to it.

This is also why you shouldn't go to the dealership to have work like this completed!

Absolutely. I'm not this stupid , really I'm not.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

I agree, this is the right way to do it. If they didn't do this, I would hope that they at least fused the positive lead close to the battery.

A fuse on the positive lead of a winch? The current draw would require at least a 400a cut off. They wouldn't have done that. A solenoid is the correct way to do it but directly to battery accepted as well.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

Just because “we’ve always done it that way,” doesn’t mean it is correct. Unfortunately, in today’s litigious society, everything is subject to second and third guessing and “past practice” will only carry them so far. This is actually an easy call because when the dealership offered to fix the alleged winch problem, they were admitting that they had the requisite (professional) knowledge to do so and the law will hold them to a (much) higher standard than beer-drinking buddies from the neighborhood doing it in the driveway. The minute the dealership put a wrench on this one, they undertook a “duty” as the law sees it and became responsible for all of the foreseeable consequences, including failure to protect the battery and any resulting fire or issue.

Now I will admit that the we don’t hear directly about a lot of winch-related fires, but what we hear about frequently is “under the hood or dash” fires in Jeeps and other modified vehicles (four-wheel drive vehicles being common) where the cause is “undetermined.” Over the years, I have wired more than my fair share of vehicles, including all of my numerous Jeeps, as well as plenty of emergency vehicles and other auxiliary-equipped vehicles, and along the way I have seen some pretty shady wiring. This, along with serving as an emergency rescue tech for countless years, seems to confirm my suspicion (along with a lot of fire inspectors) that fires are not uncommon from improper vehicle wiring.

The OP paid a lot of money here for whatever they did. They should have at least done it right.

Yes, I too have seen some janky installs of wiring and I completely agree that shitty wiring causes fires.

A winch directly connected to a battery isn't janky nor would it cause a fire if done correctly. I guarantee you there are a lot more installed this way than not. Especially considering that's exactly how the instructions that come with them say to do it.

How many spontaneous winch fires have you seen as a rescue tech? Not from shitty electrical, but actual proper wired winches catching fire after an accident?

Anyway, I fully agree that a solenoid should be used but to think the "tech", who before they wired your winch probably were rotating tires, would know about an interupt kit, is a lofty goal. There would be zero culpability on their part unless it was wired completely wrong.

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