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Why No Chains?

supermike

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To minimize liability of dealer and manufacturer.....
Also people will sue for anything......
Currently if you buy a house in ca, standard CAR purchase agreement is 18+ pages...
A California thing...
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omnitonic

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But, I live in Pennsylvania, so what do I know?!?! Other than not to live in California.
Right? Here on the east coast, if it's bad enough for chains, everybody at work already called out anyway, so it's time to drink beer.
 
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Can't wait to leave this stupid state, but until then, I'm wondering what would happen if you drive on a road that requires chains, but are using Autosock as prescribed in the owner's manual. On one hand, CA DOT is requiring us to use chains....but on the other, they also made us sign disclosures stating that we can't. So which is it?

Should I ever find myself in that situation, I'll be sure to keep a copy of that no-chain disclosure in my glove box so I can hand it over to the officer after I get pulled over.
 

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if you need chains on a Jeep Wrangler you have the wrong tires.......just sayin :bandit:
Ever see a 60 ton tank slide sideways on ice. Duh!
 

Geesmill

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Can't wait to leave this stupid state, but until then, I'm wondering what would happen if you drive on a road that requires chains, but are using Autosock as prescribed in the owner's manual. On one hand, CA DOT is requiring us to use chains....but on the other, they also made us sign disclosures stating that we can't. So which is it?

Should I ever find myself in that situation, I'll be sure to keep a copy of that no-chain disclosure in my glove box so I can hand it over to the officer after I get pulled over.
I imagine traction devices would be acceptable. In Colorado, chains, cables, snowflake tires and studded snows count for traction devices.

Also, we are all full here, might try Oregon or Washington, but Colorado, Wyoming and Montana are at capacity. These places are overrun and there is no room, LOL.
 

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Here is a quick vid test showing the efficacy and durability of the Autosock. The manufacturer specifically informs that “Lifespan is decreased if used on dry or wet surfaces.” Hmm? Once ripped the sock should be replaced. So no dry, no wet, no gravel, no spin.…. Looks like most buses, trucks, semis, fire trucks etc will stick to the tried and true. Except maybe in those specific nanny states that mandate chain exclusions or FCA that push the sock due to liability concerns.

If you really were concerned and wanted to follow nanny FCA “recommendations”, just use chains with 245s as they specify. Seems yeah at full 100% articulation the chains may potentially rub a touch with stock 285 KO2s at 32.8 with sway bar disconnected. So of course why would FCA take a risk and be subjected to legal claims. Just flat do not “recommend“ them based on clearance is their easiest solution.

For the most part, more concerning are loose flinging chain ends due to improper noob installation.




Edit: Here is some info about Cali chain requirements.

https://dot.ca.gov/travel/winter-driving-tips/chain-controls

 
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omnitonic

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Also, we are all full here, might try Oregon or Washington, but Colorado, Wyoming and Montana are at capacity. These places are overrun and there is no room, LOL.
That's what you get for becoming the mecca for potheads. :CWL:
 

Geesmill

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That's what you get for becoming the mecca for potheads. :CWL:
That is no joke, when I go out of state people always ask about the weed! In all seriousness, if your state has that on the ballot think long and hard. There were no homeless camps before legalization. Obviously, correlation is not causation, and many other things have happened since the votes, but just keep it in mind. Growing up I knew many who had stuff on them when arrested and it really made their lives difficult, so I'm torn, but still, able-bodied young people begging everywhere in a rural community is odd.
 

omnitonic

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That is no joke, when I go out of state people always ask about the weed! In all seriousness, if your state has that on the ballot think long and hard.
I liked weed better when it was something people smoked at parties once in awhile, without making it the entire focus of their lives.
 

BamaJeepTruck

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Can't wait to leave this stupid state, but until then, I'm wondering what would happen if you drive on a road that requires chains, but are using Autosock as prescribed in the owner's manual. On one hand, CA DOT is requiring us to use chains....but on the other, they also made us sign disclosures stating that we can't. So which is it?

Should I ever find myself in that situation, I'll be sure to keep a copy of that no-chain disclosure in my glove box so I can hand it over to the officer after I get pulled over.
If you got pulled over the disclosure won’t matter at all. If the law requires you to have chains you need them. If you signed something saying you wouldn’t then that’s on you. The cops attitude will be that the disclosure means nothing to him, and if you wish to follow that disclosure then you shouldn’t be driving at all when chains are required.
 

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flyer92

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the law requires you to have chains
True...but the law also requires us not to use them, which is contradictory, and why this situation is so confusing. Recent events and skewed public discourse notwithstanding, an officer's attitude means nothing in the big scheme of things...what matters, is what the laws state and how they are enforced.
 

BamaJeepTruck

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True...but the law also requires us not to use them, which is contradictory, and why this situation is so confusing. Recent events and skewed public discourse notwithstanding, an officer's attitude means nothing in the big scheme of things...what matters, is what the laws state and how they are enforced.
There is no contradiction there though. That disclosure isn't law. That disclosure also says "this vehicle", not all vehicles. That would mean if chains are required then that vehicle doesn't drive on that road. I never wore a badge in California, but where I have I wouldn't even entertain the excuse that the dealer gave you that handout. Id simply cite you and inform you of the statute you are in violation of. Hell I had people say they could use those red/blue LED valve caps because they bought them at Walmart so they must be legal. I'd follow the traffic code, not a disclosure from a car dealer. Just my $.02
 
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flyer92

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There is no contradiction there though. That disclosure isn't law. That disclosure also says "this vehicle", not all vehicles. That would mean if chains are required then that vehicle doesn't drive on that road. I never wore a badge in California, but where I have I wouldn't even entertain the excuse that the dealer gave you that handout. Id simply cite you and inform you of the statute you are in violation of. Hell I had people say they could use those red/blue LED valve caps because they bought them at Walmart so they must be legal. I'd follow the traffic code, not a disclosure from a car dealer. Just my $.02
It appears that neither of us are attorneys, so we really can't have a constructive debate on this...nor do I want to. To clarify once again, the disclosure exists as a result of traffic code, as you mentioned, and is a state requirement...not a dealer's. Therein lies the legal contradiction, but a final determination is clearly well beyond the scope of this forum.
 

BamaJeepTruck

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It appears that neither of us are attorneys, so we really can't have a constructive debate on this...nor do I want to. To clarify once again, the disclosure exists as a result of traffic code, as you mentioned, and is a state requirement...not a dealer's. Therein lies the legal contradiction, but a final determination is clearly well beyond the scope of this forum.
And which state statute is it? Sure doesn't cite one. That disclosure is in no way law. California chain requirements are easy to find and published. https://dot.ca.gov/travel/winter-driving-tips/chain-controls. There is no determination required, or contradictions.
 

BamaJeepTruck

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It appears that neither of us are attorneys, so we really can't have a constructive debate on this...nor do I want to. To clarify once again, the disclosure exists as a result of traffic code, as you mentioned, and is a state requirement...not a dealer's. Therein lies the legal contradiction, but a final determination is clearly well beyond the scope of this forum.
I also looked up the code,

California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH § 11713.6
a) It is unlawful and a violation of this code for the holder of any dealer's license issued under this article to fail to disclose in writing to the buyer or lessee of a new motor vehicle, that the vehicle, as equipped, may not be operated on a highway signed for the requirement of tire chains if the owner's manual or other material provided by the manufacturer states that the vehicle, as equipped, may not be operated with tire chains.
(b) The disclosure required under subdivision (a) shall meet both of the following requirements:
(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point boldface type on a single sheet of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital letters:  “AS EQUIPPED, THIS VEHICLE MAY NOT BE OPERATED WITH TIRE CHAINS BUT MAY ACCOMMODATE SOME OTHER TYPE OF TIRE TRACTION DEVICE. SEE THE OWNER'S MANUAL FOR DETAILS.”
(c) Prior to the sale or lease, the dealer shall present the disclosure statement for the buyer's or lessee's signature and then shall provide the buyer or lessee with a copy of the signed disclosure.

Its pretty clear that the vehicle may not be operated on signed roads that require chains, which does not negate the requirement for vehicles on that road. If you drive on a road requiring chains without them you would be in violation.

Also 100% moot unless the owners manual states your vehicle cant.
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