What temperature is considered operating temperature?

[roaniecowpony]

Well, I found the FRAM extra guard filter had twisted drastically when I thought it was a good idea to install on my 6th oil change, before heading to California. I never saw twist from OEM and Mobil 1, and thought I did something wrong until a member posted his link on filter twist and filter measurement comparisons. As for a too tall filter, it places undo stress to rhe cap when tightening. We had an earlier thread on cap pressure relief valve breaking with a member here. Things just don't break on their own. Cap internal stress is increased when fighting against the oil filter height, when installing the filter cap.

At one time STP and Mobil 1 with some other brands were all made by a single company. There may be minor differences but it may be due to cost for lower teir brands

So, this discussion prompted me to go out and pull the filter I have in my jeep right now. It's a Fram Ultra XG11665 as you can see in the laser marking on the end. There is no twist. In fact, of all the brands (3 or 4) I've used in 2 engines and 3 oil filter housings, and at least 4 filter caps, I've never had a filter twist to any notable degree.

If you have the filter cap with the filter installed over the spring guide in the cap, and push on the filter, you can get about 1/8" of spring travel. This can easily accommodate small variations in filter length.

When I install the filter, I push it on the spud at the back of the cap until it clicks and sets straight in the cap. Then I lube the Oring at the tip and the cap Oring, then turn it by hand as far as I can, with the last thread or two needing a wrench to overcome the big Oring on the cap. I just tighten until the cap flange meets the face of the housing, with maybe 5 lbs/ft of torque. I don't use a torque wrench for this, nor tighten to the 18 lbs/ft spec.

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[YBABRAT]

So, this discussion prompted me to go out and pull the filter I have in my jeep right now. It's a Fram Ultra XG11665 as you can see in the laser marking on the end. There is no twist. In fact, of all the brands (3 or 4) I've used in 2 engines and 3 oil filter housings, and at least 4 filter caps, I've never had a filter twist to any notable degree.

If you have the filter cap with the filter installed over the spring guide in the cap, and push on the filter, you can get about 1/8" of spring travel. This can easily accommodate small variations in filter length.

When I install the filter, I push it on the spud at the back of the cap until it clicks and sets straight in the cap. Then I lube the Oring at the tip and the cap Oring, then turn it by hand as far as I can, with the last thread or two needing a wrench to overcome the big Oring on the cap. I just tighten until the cap flange meets the face of the housing, with maybe 5 lbs/ft of torque. I don't use a torque wrench for this, nor tighten to the 18 lbs/ft spec.

Here is the thread... https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-to-wring-its-filters-out.49733/#post-1100977

My FRAM looked like the one pictured when I removed it.

Now I must say... there are two differing OEM oil filter caps released between 2015 and 2022. My original 2019 cap was used until my 5th oil change with OEM filter. No issues with twist on either cap. Though I did post noticeable difference with tension on the oil pressure bypass. When installing the new cap it was firmer and seemed to lock into fit. Meaning easy to spin on more difficult to spin off. As if the spring tension acted like a lock washer. Perhaps 2022 on up oil filter caps are more prone to twist certain oil filters?

 

[Reflektr]

195 coolant temp on my 2025 3.6 Penistar here. I was wondering the same because that’s lower than any other vehicle I’ve ever driven lol. Side note on tightening the filter cap - I have a little-bitty 3/8 drive ratchet that I use for snugging mine. I also have a paint mark on the cap/filter housing as just kind of a reference. As others have said, there’s no quicker way to a cracked filter housing than letting some ham-fisted hon-yock at the dealer or quick lube place change your oil.

 

[Dabrakeman]

I also have oil temp up all the time. But I thought you had to get to at least 200F with the 2.0T to ensure no oil dilution before turning off the engine? Would like to hear from those who know more about this then I do (read: most everyone!)

Average gasoline boiling temperature is about 200F but some components of the blend start boiling off closer to 100F while others don't until 400F. This, however, relates to burning off gas already in the oil, i.e. to get out of FORM. I certainly did not engineer these direct injection engines so am only speculating but it would seem there should be a somewhat direct relationship to how cold the bore and rings are and how much blow by of gas (dilution) is getting through to the oil. I would think by the time oil temperatures are near 150F this blow by would be cut drastically from the near ambient conditions. Anyway, after taking this approach last winter I never got into FORM, as opposed to previously when I did have issues. The vehicle left to its own devices will begin stop start engine control before oil temperature has reached triple digits.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Here is the thread... https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-to-wring-its-filters-out.49733/#post-1100977

My FRAM looked like the one pictured when I removed it.

Now I must say... there are two differing OEM oil filter caps released between 2015 and 2022. My original 2019 cap was used until my 5th oil change with OEM filter. No issues with twist on either cap. Though I did post noticeable difference with tension on the oil pressure bypass. When installing the new cap it was firmer and seemed to lock into fit. Meaning easy to spin on more difficult to spin off. As if the spring tension acted like a lock washer. Perhaps 2022 on up oil filter caps are more prone to twist certain oil filters?

The cap shown is off of my 2024 engine with a new 68596318AB oil filter housing/cap. When I bought the 2024 engine from AMW 4x4, it came with a filter housing that had the updated seals between the cooler and housing body, which eliminated the "figure 8" seals, but the p/n was not what one I could discern if it had the updated seals. So, I replaced it with a new, from a local dealership, oil filter housing 68596318AB .

On the previous (2018) engine, I replaced the cap once, for some reason. Maybe I dropped it.

On this new engine, I have used a Mopar cap made as a "tool" for dealership mechanics, so they can install a mechanical pressure gauge. It has the usual bypass system, but also has a hole with a 1/4" NPT thread for the gauge. I left that gauge on there up until I wanted to use it for the start up of SadRobot's replacement engine .

 

[shane h.]

3.6 V6 8-speed auto. Talking highway usage - 70mph at usual spring/summer/fall temps.

Before modding the Jeep and installing the RPM Extreme fan controller my coolant temps would range from 212 to 225 with oil temps usually about 10 degrees higher.

Once I added the lift/bumpers/winch to the Jeep, coolant temps would run 225 to 235 with oil usually 10 degrees higher. Did not like these numbers at all.

Once I added the RMP Extreme fan controller, with the modifications, coolant temps run 195-202 with oil temps usually 10 degrees higher.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Here is the thread... https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-to-wring-its-filters-out.49733/#post-1100977

My FRAM looked like the one pictured when I removed it.

Now I must say... there are two differing OEM oil filter caps released between 2015 and 2022. My original 2019 cap was used until my 5th oil change with OEM filter. No issues with twist on either cap. Though I did post noticeable difference with tension on the oil pressure bypass. When installing the new cap it was firmer and seemed to lock into fit. Meaning easy to spin on more difficult to spin off. As if the spring tension acted like a lock washer. Perhaps 2022 on up oil filter caps are more prone to twist certain oil filters?

Those measurements are interesting. As you can see in the picture below, the Fram XG11665 (Ultra) measures 4.853, which is over 1/8" shorter than measured 5 1/2 years ago by @CarbonSteel . I know CarbonSteel well enough that I believe he took care to get his measurements right. They must have had a change of the length since then. Possibly, Fram ( or some of these companies) have been getting feedback from the OEM or have been doing their own testing. I know Fram jumped in on BITOG about their filters being poorly constructed, and they took that information and created their higher quality lines and stated that they made corrections to their bottom line filters as well. They seemed to be more open to feedback than most large companies.

 

[Pape]

in the winter the water rang from 190 to 203, oil 197 to 221
in the summer water range from 199 to 231, oil 204 to 244

the interesting part if I would only do highway in the winter I would never hit the 200+ oil temp to burn the fuel residue in it.

 

[beewil]

3.6 V6 8-speed auto. Talking highway usage - 70mph at usual spring/summer/fall temps.

Before modding the Jeep and installing the RPM Extreme fan controller my coolant temps would range from 212 to 225 with oil temps usually about 10 degrees higher.

Once I added the lift/bumpers/winch to the Jeep, coolant temps would run 225 to 235 with oil usually 10 degrees higher. Did not like these numbers at all.

Once I added the RMP Extreme fan controller, with the modifications, coolant temps run 195-202 with oil temps usually 10 degrees higher.

I'm looking into the RPM fan controller as well. Some of the replies on this thread indicate you should run oil temps in the 220-230's to "burn off" gas? Am I doing more harm than good, not letting the engine get hot with the fan controller (I currently am using Tazer JL to turn on the fan when hot)? Your thoughts?

 

[YBABRAT]

Those measurements are interesting. As you can see in the picture below, the Fram XG11665 (Ultra) measures 4.853, which is over 1/8" shorter than measured 5 1/2 years ago by @CarbonSteel . I know CarbonSteel well enough that I believe he took care to get his measurements right. They must have had a change of the length since then. Possibly, Fram ( or some of these companies) have been getting feedback from the OEM or have been doing their own testing. I know Fram jumped in on BITOG about their filters being poorly constructed, and they took that information and created their higher quality lines and stated that they made corrections to their bottom line filters as well. They seemed to be more open to feedback than most large companies.

It intrigues me that there are ao many variances with filter lengths with most brands. In my area of few Pentastars compared to the college town I work in, has a stock of various brand oil filters but where there is an abundance of pentastars, few top tier options. Go figure? Dunno if the FRAM was old stock here in my town or what. I guess I can go through various oil filters with my micrometer and measure them. Not sure if sales people and managers will be happy about it. Sort of like opening a packages of briefs and measuring each waist band to verify size is correct HA!

 

[shane h.]

If fuel boils off above 200F then you are good running the fan controller. I've had it installed since this last May, with two really long trips (San Juans and Moab) on the Jeep since install, and the Jeep runs better than ever. I liked the fan controller on my modified Jeep so much that after install I immediately ordered a second one and installed it on my wife's unmodified 21 JLUR 3.6.

 

[roaniecowpony]

It intrigues me that there are ao many variances with filter lengths with most brands. In my area of few Pentastars compared to the college town I work in, has a stock of various brand oil filters but where there is an abundance of pentastars, few top tier options. Go figure? Dunno if the FRAM was old stock here in my town or what. I guess I can go through various oil filters with my micrometer and measure them. Not sure if sales people and managers will be happy about it. Sort of like opening a packages of briefs and measuring each waist band to verify size is correct HA!

I couldn't stand it. I pulled my jeep's filter again and measured it. 4.815" That's shorter yet, than the one I had in the box and about 3/16" shorter than CarbonSteel measured 5 years ago.

Looks like I'm headed to the men's underwear department with my calipers.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Guys, it is 51 in Seattle right now. Jeep has been off for the last 15 hours. So I am about to go and drive and see if I get to 200 degrees

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Wish me luck guys

 

[YBABRAT]

Wish me luck guys

You live in Seattle? Drive at least 20 miles. My jeep will be in the 195°F ranges on gauges between 25°F and 45°F If in 55°F and above 215°F on up to 245°F driving 70MPH in mountains.

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