The Pentastar Loves to Wring its Filters Out!

[DanW]

Every filter, from the Mopar, to the Fram Ultra, and now to the M1, likes to think it is Chubby Checker in this engine. They all do the twist. I pulled my first Mobil 1 filter after an 8,000 mile run, and it was twisted like the others, but on one side, it was a bit worse. Close examination revealed no problems with the pleats. They held together just fine. So far, oil analyses have shown that filtration has been fine. I fully expect the next analysis to show that this one did fine, too. The new one is in, along with some Rotella Gas Truck 0w20. I'll run it at least 5k miles, but might take it out to 8k, depending on my mood. Here are the pics:

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[islandtees]

I thought you used Mobil 1 oil?

 

[DanW]

I thought you used Mobil 1 oil?

I do. But, I had a $30 reward at Autozone and found Gas Truck for $10 on clearance for 5 quart jugs, and $2 for 1 quart jugs. On top of that, there was a $10 rebate. So, I bought 3 5 quart jugs, including one in 0w20 for the JL and two 5w30 for my JK for nothing, and Shell then paid me $30 bucks to do it! Lol, much as I love M1, this is just way too good a deal to pass up.

The stats on Gas Truck are pretty good, too. It has a significantly higher flash point and I think a slightly lower pour point that Pennzoil Platinum, which I think is excellent oil. I believe I read somewhere that it has lower Noack, too, but I'm not 100% on that.

I've got the Gas Truck in both the JK and JL right now. I've got a sample of M1 AP with 8k on it from the JL on its way for analysis, as well.

I'm sure the Gas Truck will be great. It has been turning in some outstanding UOA's on Bitog, so it should be good to go.

I also prefer Fram Ultra filters, but the M1 filters were on clearance at Wallyworld for 4 bucks, so I bought about 12 or so of them, so I'll be running them for awhile, unless I see something I don't like in the UOA.

 

[DanW]

Here are some stats. RGT is first, M1 AP second, both 0w20.

Flash point 465.8 467.6
Pour point -54.4 -59.8
Kinem. Visc @212 degrees 8.4 8.7

For reference, Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum are below:

Flash Point 399.2 406.4
Pour Point -54.4 -54.4
Kenim. Visc @212 8.8 8.6

It is very close between RGT and M1 AP in these few data points. The flash point in RGT is the highest I remember seeing from a non-PAO base stock 0w20, but then again, there may be some PAO in it. Only Shell really knows, but I'm not surprised, as they market Rotella as a very robust oil that can take high stress in truck engines.

I look at these data points with the full knowledge that they don't tell the whole story. There are so many additives that work on top of the base stocks. I can't honestly tell you which oil is better overall for the 3.6. It is just a guess, really. What I'll tell you is that I'd have high confidence in any of these oils. I like Mobil 1 AP best because of the high percentage of PAO base oil. That comes from many years of running Mobil 1 with high PAO in my engines. (Remember, full synthetic used to mean PAO base stock, until highly processed crude became Group III and was permitted to be called "full synthetic", as well, so most "full synthetic" oils today are Group III. Pennzoil Platinum uses Gas to Liquid base stocks (GTL) which are widely considered superior to Group III and not too far off of PAO in performance.)

So, my fav is M1, but a close 2nd would be Pennzoil synthetics or their sister products from Shell, which include RTG and Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Tied for 2nd is probably Valvoline synthetics (they also make Napa). Another I like is Chevron Havoline, but I don't have much experience with it yet. It is in my daughter's Renegade right now, in 0w20. I just like Chevron as a company. No other data. I'm pretty sure it has a Group III base.

I don't really think there is a 0w20 from a major brand that isn't excellent oil. There's also Castrol, and even Supertech is good, IMO.

There are some boutique oils that I think are excellent, too, starting with Amsoil. I like Red Line, Ravenol, Idemitzu, and Liqui Moly, as well. I think all those except maybe Idemitzu have PAO base stocks. Not sure, though. They still might.

Also, Toyota house brand is made by Mobil 1, btw. So it would be a great choice, too.

 

[No IFS]

Imho , Yuk on Fram

 

[DanW]

Imho , Yuk on Fram

Each to his own. No filter for the 3.6 I've seen has better performance in standard SAE tests or better construction than the Ultra. The Mopar, which I think is a decent filter, isn't held together nearly as well. Not even in the same zip code. We'll see how the M1 I pulled out holds together. I'm expecting it to be quite good. But, it doesn't perform as well as the Fram Ultra. We'll also see how the filtration was with the M1 when I get the UOA back. I've never had a UOA flag filtration when using the Ultra, in any of my vehicles, cartridge or can.

 

[SecondTJ]

Each to his own. No filter for the 3.6 I've seen has better performance in standard SAE tests or better construction than the Ultra. The Mopar, which I think is a decent filter, isn't held together nearly as well. Not even in the same zip code.

Some people are still holding onto Fram’s poor reputation from what the 90’s? All one needs to do it take them out of the box at the store to compare. Just holding them the Utra’s construction simply looks & feels superior to cheaper filters.

 

[DanW]

I wondered the same thing, so this time around, I did just that. We'll see how it works in 5 to 8 thousand miles. Anyone else try this?

 

[CarbonSteel]

I wondered the same thing, so this time around, I did just that. We'll see how it works in 5 to 8 thousand miles. Anyone else try this?

Yep; no difference--oil or not. This is what I have observed thus far:

• The Mopar OEM (MO-349) and WIX filters (WL10010) have twisted, The WIX has a fixed small end (end with the o-ring), I cannot remember what the OEM Mopar had.
  
• FRAM Ultra (XG11665) and Hastings (LF-697) have not twisted and have a free-spinning small end (end with the o-ring).
• Mahle (OX1213D) filters have not twisted and have a fixed small end (end with the o-ring).

I took all 4 of the new filters out of the box and compared them and tried to take some measurements.

From Left to Right in the photo (below):


Mahle (OX1213D):

4-7/8" Filter Body
6-3/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)

Hastings (LF-697):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

FRAM Ultra (XG11665):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

WIX (WL10010):

5-1/16" Filter Body
6-5/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)

• The WIX is the longest of the filters (base to end) which may explain why it twisted (it has a fixed end).
• The Mahle is the shortest (base to end) which could explain why it did not twist. (it has a fixed end)
• Both the FRAM and the Hastings are the same length which may the correct length, but these filters also have a free-spinning end which may help prevent twisting.

@DanW - do you have a Mopar and M1 filter to measure? We could create a list of them with the numbers.

 

[jeepdabest]

Here are some stats. RGT is first, M1 AP second, both 0w20.

Flash point 465.8 467.6
Pour point -54.4 -59.8
Kinem. Visc @212 degrees 8.4 8.7

For reference, Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum are below:

Flash Point 399.2 406.4
Pour Point -54.4 -54.4
Kenim. Visc @212 8.8 8.6

It is very close between RGT and M1 AP in these few data points. The flash point in RGT is the highest I remember seeing from a non-PAO base stock 0w20, but then again, there may be some PAO in it. Only Shell really knows, but I'm not surprised, as they market Rotella as a very robust oil that can take high stress in truck engines.

I look at these data points with the full knowledge that they don't tell the whole story. There are so many additives that work on top of the base stocks. I can't honestly tell you which oil is better overall for the 3.6. It is just a guess, really. What I'll tell you is that I'd have high confidence in any of these oils. I like Mobil 1 AP best because of the high percentage of PAO base oil. That comes from many years of running Mobil 1 with high PAO in my engines. (Remember, full synthetic used to mean PAO base stock, until highly processed crude became Group III and was permitted to be called "full synthetic", as well, so most "full synthetic" oils today are Group III. Pennzoil Platinum uses Gas to Liquid base stocks (GTL) which are widely considered superior to Group III and not too far off of PAO in performance.)

So, my fav is M1, but a close 2nd would be Pennzoil synthetics or their sister products from Shell, which include RTG and Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Tied for 2nd is probably Valvoline synthetics (they also make Napa). Another I like is Chevron Havoline, but I don't have much experience with it yet. It is in my daughter's Renegade right now, in 0w20. I just like Chevron as a company. No other data. I'm pretty sure it has a Group III base.

I don't really think there is a 0w20 from a major brand that isn't excellent oil. There's also Castrol, and even Supertech is good, IMO.

There are some boutique oils that I think are excellent, too, starting with Amsoil. I like Red Line, Ravenol, Idemitzu, and Liqui Moly, as well. I think all those except maybe Idemitzu have PAO base stocks. Not sure, though. They still might.

Also, Toyota house brand is made by Mobil 1, btw. So it would be a great choice, too.

When you say M1 you mean AP I think. What about regular M1 0w20?

 

[DanW]

Yep; no difference--oil or not. This is what I have observed thus far:

• The Mopar OEM (MO-349) and WIX filters (WL10010) have twisted, The WIX has a fixed small end (end with the o-ring), I cannot remember what the OEM Mopar had.
  
• FRAM Ultra (XG11665) and Hastings (LF-697) have not twisted and have a free-spinning small end (end with the o-ring).
• Mahle (OX1213D) filters have not twisted and have a fixed small end (end with the o-ring).

I took all 4 of the new filters out of the box and compared them and tried to take some measurements.

From Left to Right in the photo (below):


Mahle (OX1213D):

4-7/8" Filter Body
6-3/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)

Hastings (LF-697):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

FRAM Ultra (XG11665):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

WIX (WL10010):

5-1/16" Filter Body
6-5/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)

• The WIX is the longest of the filters (base to end) which may explain why it twisted (it has a fixed end).
• The Mahle is the shortest (base to end) which could explain why it did not twist. (it has a fixed end)
• Both the FRAM and the Hastings are the same length which may the correct length, but these filters also have a free-spinning end which may help prevent twisting.

@DanW - do you have a Mopar and M1 filter to measure? We could create a list of them with the numbers.

I've got an M1 and a used Mopar. When I get a chance, I'll measure them out. So far, in order of most twist to least, for me it has been M1, Mopar, Fram. I never oiled the flat end of them until the M1 I just installed, so we'll know probably in the fall.

Good idea on measuring them! I've found so far that it just doesn't seem to make a difference how much I tighten the cap. The least I've tightened it was on the M1, which again, twisted the most. Odd.

I'll let youknow what I find.

 

[DanW]

When you say M1 you mean AP I think. What about regular M1 0w20?

Yes, the M1 oil I have run in all but one fill was AP. I did one run of EP. The last run was AP. I just mailed the sample to Blackstone today.

They don't make a regular M1 in 0w20 at this time. They have AFE (Advanced Fuel Economy) AP, and EP. They also make Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20, but it is not under the Mobil 1 brand of premium synthetics. It is a group III based oil. It is very good, and meets MS6395 (because it doesn't compete with Shell's premium line of Platinum synthetics, FCA allows them to say it), but it is considered a 2nd tier brand by Exxon Mobil.

 

[jeepdabest]

Yes, the M1 oil I have run in all but one fill was AP. I did one run of EP. The last run was AP. I just mailed the sample to Blackstone today.

They don't make a regular M1 in 0w20 at this time. They have AFE (Advanced Fuel Economy) AP, and EP. They also make Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20, but it is not under the Mobil 1 brand of premium synthetics. It is a group III based oil. It is very good, and meets MS6395 (because it doesn't compete with Shell's premium line of Platinum synthetics, FCA allows them to say it), but it is considered a 2nd tier brand by Exxon Mobil.

Is the AFE close to the others?

 

[jeepdabest]

Found this

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