Stellantis still has a Tavares problem

[BXFXJeep]

I'm not convinced you actually care about truth or science. Kind of like all the people identifying as environmentalists in this thread.

All I'm saying is why the need for all the lying if the science is real.

I see where this EV scheme is heading, it's to eventually get the masses out of private vehicles, they will eventually pull the plug on private car ownership.

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[NWJeepr]

All I'm saying is why the need for all the lying if the science is real.

I see where this EV scheme is heading, it's to eventually get the masses out of private vehicles, they will eventually pull the plug on private car ownership.

No, I really think your talking points fall apart, and the idea of removing private vehicle ownership is one of those boogieman "slippery slope" arguments made by the fearful simply because they don't like change. EV's only proliferate private vehicle ownership and cement the future of that idea.

 

[driventoadventure]

With all the new regs and carbon taxes Phillips 66 has announced shutting down their refinery and bailing out of Ca. ….. the powers that be in Sacramento are likely smiling Haven’t heard- what’s the second one ?

You realize that the biggest reason refineries in CA are shutting down has more to do with supply and demand than environmental regulation, right? Fuel demand in CA continues a downward trend, and is 15% down from it's all-time high, as well as CARB rules will continue to force that demand down. Coupled with their fuel not being widely distributed means that even though the refineries have the highest margins, they run into profitability problems due to sales volume.

Sure they blame regulation, but that's because they are politically motivated to do so. It sure gets those uninformed masses to point the blame where it doesn't belong.

 

[Pape]

You realize that the biggest reason refineries in CA are shutting down has more to do with supply and demand than environmental regulation, right? Fuel demand in CA continues a downward trend, and is 15% down from it's all-time high, as well as CARB rules will continue to force that demand down. Coupled with their fuel not being widely distributed means that even though the refineries have the highest margins, they run into profitability problems due to sales volume.

Sure they blame regulation, but that's because they are politically motivated to do so. It sure gets those uninformed masses to point the blame where it doesn't belong.

According to statistic it is true that gasoline consumption is lower than it was before the pandemic therefore it does make senses to close down some refinery. It is also make sense to close refinery in location where heavy regulation is taking place.

 

[driventoadventure]

According to statistic it is true that gasoline consumption is lower than it was before the pandemic therefore it does make senses to close down some refinery. It is also make sense to close refinery in location where heavy regulation is taking place.

It's not just lower than it was before the pandemic... It's lower than it has been at any point in the last almost-decade. It's been steadily falling since peak consumption in 2016... Refineries' plans are made based on decade and multi-decade data. The data they have says that fuel demand doesn't justify them continuing to run these plants. Again, considering that CA refiners have the highest per-gallon margins of any refineries anywhere by a wide margin - if the demand was there, they would continue to refine as fast as they possibly could because that is where they make the most money.

 

[Wbino]

All I'm saying is why the need for all the lying if the science is real.

I see where this EV scheme is heading, it's to eventually get the masses out of private vehicles, they will eventually pull the plug on private car ownership.

You should be in the Olympics with that record long jump.

 

[Bayrat]

It's not a good ideal to sign a deal such as that. Smith and Wesson learned the hard way.

 

[Pape]

It's not just lower than it was before the pandemic... It's lower than it has been at any point in the last almost-decade. It's been steadily falling since peak consumption in 2016... Refineries' plans are made based on decade and multi-decade data. The data they have says that fuel demand doesn't justify them continuing to run these plants. Again, considering that CA refiners have the highest per-gallon margins of any refineries anywhere by a wide margin - if the demand was there, they would continue to refine as fast as they possibly could because that is where they make the most money.

Wait a sec, can you provide more detail about "refineries anywhere by a wide margin - if the demand was there" where is this margin come from ?

 

[BXFXJeep]

No, I really think your talking points fall apart, and the idea of removing private vehicle ownership is one of those boogieman "slippery slope" arguments made by the fearful simply because they don't like change. EV's only proliferate private vehicle ownership and cement the future of that idea.

EV is only part of the over all scheme, they hope people cannot connect the dots.

Some other schemes involve removing lanes, blocking roads etc

Here are a few examples, converting lanes to bike lanes, blocking roads with patios, this is a streetcar route, which means now cars, streetcars, buses, bicycles etc all share one congested lane.

Note the no stopping rush hour sign.

It gets even more comical, block a lane on a major route with bicycle rental

Oh look, the government is even ticketing people for stopping in the right lane of the same route that they blocked with bicycle rental and patios

 

[Wbino]

Why are you trying to make this personal? My original comment stands. People want to make their own choices, and I say let them. Regardless of what that choice is.

I commented on your personal observation. It's a forum. Expect pushback.

 

[NWJeepr]

EV is only part of the over all scheme, they hope people cannot connect the dots.

Some other schemes involve removing lanes, blocking roads etc

Here are a few examples, converting lanes to bike lanes, blocking roads with patios, this is a streetcar route, which means now cars, streetcars, buses, bicycles etc all share one congested lane.

Note the no stopping rush hour sign.



It gets even more comical, block a lane on a major route with bicycle rental


Oh look, the government is even ticketing people for stopping in the right lane of the same route that they blocked with bicycle rental and patios

It's almost like crowded cities need to accommodate many different types of traffic and modes of transportation - and additional street parking.

What I don't get is like what you're doing, playing the victim and pretending like everyone is out to get you, and spreading false information / conspiracies about what "they" are doing. Fear is control, dude... is that not... brainwashing?

 

[jbcrane]

Can always cook sales like chyna, every single thing about the EV schemes are based on outright fraud and lies.

Motor Mouth: Is China’s EV revolution on the ropes?

For the first time since its boom began, Chinese electric vehicle manufacturers confront significant headwinds.

https://driving.ca/column/motor-mouth/chinas-electric-vehicle-revolution-on-the-ropes

That's a great read. Thanks for the link.

 

[driventoadventure]

Wait a sec, can you provide more detail about "refineries anywhere by a wide margin - if the demand was there" where is this margin come from ?

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repo...arket/california-oil-refinery-cost-disclosure Is one quick source.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63447 gives you some reference data.

The EIA's search function is currently broken making it hard to find the specific data that I have read in the past showing regional refinery margins, so I will ask some friends in B&D at one of the major refineries to give me some data they can publicly share, but the difference in margin is considerable and more than one of them is the kind who prefers to "toe the line" politically...

 

[BXFXJeep]

You should be in the Olympics with that record long jump.

I live in a city that has banned American liquor

It's almost like crowded cities need to accommodate many different types of traffic and modes of transportation.

What I don't get is like what you're doing, playing the victim and pretending like everyone is out to get you, and spreading false information / conspiracies about what "they" are doing. Fear is control, dude... is that not... brainwashing?

Last time I check a patio isn't a mode of transportation, and there is absolutely zero need to install bicycle rental on roads, especially roads that is an already congested, the sole purpose of these schemes is to block the lanes.

Most of this stuff doesn't affect me since I mostly ride or skateboard around the city.

This isn't about playing victim, this is proof as to what is at play.

 

[NWJeepr]

Most of this stuff doesn't affect me since I mostly ride or skateboard around the city.

Sorry, grown men don't ride skateboards. Now I know who I'm dealing with for reals.

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